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Post by Adyanna79 on Jan 24, 2004 17:27:48 GMT
Alright so the ones who know me... Have noticed that I like to obey the rules and to clearly state them...
I was under the impression that the roll when you die rule was to encourage roleplay...
Anyway lately(in fact all this week everytime I got on I got involve into some kind of pvp battle and everytime the "RULE" was different to the everybody...
The first case was that the char who killed me did not stick around for the raise and thenrefore did not "SEE" the roll... I had roll and I had witness... in fact Mackzimia was my witness. I think it should be clear that if you want to witness the roll yourself you have to stick around for the raise.(but that's not really a big problem usually)
The second case was and this is the one is the one I am a bit fuzy on... We have me and another char around a fire... and another char comes and start complaining to the char I was with around the fire that he is ignoring him (clearly he wants to fight) they roleplay an argument and then start fighting... the char I was with is a magic user so he runs a bit to be able to cast his protective spells... but in the mean while the guard kills the attaker guy and his buddy becasue they were in party... the buddy respawn and he comes back to raise the attaker... they then continue to attack the first guy... and kill him... He rolls and he gets a 5...
By that time the commotion attracted quite a bit of attention and the 4 or 5 original of the events have double in size...
Then the attacker starts killing the guy I was with again... for what I am not sure... anyway the magic user wasn't buff up so he dies... and rolls again and this time gets a 19... Leaves the area buff up and comes back to attack the guy who killed him... but he has the help of 6 guys and kills the magic user another time and he rolls and gets a 4.
(I would like to mention that everytime he got a roll below the 10 treashold he woke up saying"what happened I don't feel so good" etc... He RP the not remenbering...
Now the thing is that the guy leaves with me and another char and we roleplay for like a good 15 minutes what happened... (so the magic user says well I still want vengence from that guy(and from the 19 he should remenber...) But when he comes back to his attacker it's all like (metagamer) you rolled a 4... and People are not allowed to tell you..
I was under the impression that the people can't tell you rule here did not apply becasue of the second roll.. I mean he obviously rmenbers some fighting with the guy you just don't forget half a day because of a roll.
I was also under the impression that the people can't tell you rule was meant for like some guy walking up to you and saying "this guy just killed you" and you blindly beleive him...(not really rp)
Anyway I think that killing people where they are witness should come with some reprimend... you can't really expect that no one will talk about it.. But you should not just be "hey buddy tell me who killed me" because that's not good roleplay... you wouldn't rely on just anybody to tell you... and it would take some time before it sinks in... so none of that in the middle of a battle "he killed you but" a proper retreat and long chat is alright... Or so I thought because it is correct rp.
Anyway please help me to clarify my thoughts...
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Post by wingstriker on Jan 24, 2004 19:22:42 GMT
Well I would agree with you about the memory of the killing with the one roll. The character will remember that killing but should be confused by the others (low roll) and should still be able to do something about the killing he or she does remember.
Now I think other characters that are in the area or part of the battle should be able to tell their companion whom it was that struck them down as long as they have not also died and forgotten the killing (low roll) lol When there are large battles it can become very confusing indeed!
The low roll that is made when killed I think only causes the most recent action to be forgotten or the start of the battle with that killer.
only the powers that be can clarify but I think the rule stated is fairly clear and you are right and that other is wrong ;D
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Post by Phoenix on Jan 25, 2004 17:07:35 GMT
I think the mage you were with should have dropped the fight and just not liked the guy. From what he remembered he was attacked (second roll) but did take revenge (came back buff and killed him). He was then killed again (but didn't remember it, rolled a 4) so he shouldn't have been 'more' upset at the guy than anyone who attacked him, but suffered revenge.
As far as the roll itself, I think you should make that roll in front of the character you want to RP with. It isn't always possible to stick around to see that roll if you make it.
EX. If you roll as soon as you wake up, others see it, you pass, then seek vengance. You kill the person who attacked you first. From their point of view they were ignorant of your roll, which defeats the purpose of having a roll. I agree it's a tricky situation, because there are RP problems with not making your roll, such as how do you act when you wake up and 5 people are stairing at you.
On a side note why are peoples friends not telling people what just happened more often?
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Post by ride on Jan 25, 2004 19:45:41 GMT
On a side note why are peoples friends not telling people what just happened more often? so uh what about when the attacker tells the attacked that he just killed him (even if the attacked lost his roll)? what then? and what if those ppl's freinds, don't tell the person, but decide to come back (after having just witnessed or even heard about the attack on their freind) get some vengence themselves? what then? |
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Post by wingstriker on Jan 26, 2004 5:33:35 GMT
;D oh my head hurts now  |
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Post by AvengersWraith on Jan 26, 2004 11:40:29 GMT
Let me see if I understand the timeline of events and the PKing that took place.
You and mage were talking around campfire, instigator and friend come up and instigator initiates fight with mage. Fight escalates to combat, while mage is trying to buff self with spells gaurd kills instogator and friend. Instogator's friend respawns and comes back to reserrect instigator. (Niether instigator or friend rolled to see if they remembered?)
Instigator and friend then kills mage 1st time. Mage RPs with a d20 and doesn't remember what happened when he wakes up.
Instigator then kills mage 2nd time. Mage remembers being killed this time and buffs up for rematch, but instigator has 5 friends now and kill mage 3rd time who RPs d20 and doesn't remember losing the battle against 6 but remembers the 2nd time he was killed by instigator.
You, mage and another leave to RP elsewhere and after 15 minutes roughly you run into instigator (my guess is alone because he is trying to say that the 3rd time instigator and friends kill mage, mage RPed not remembering being killed by instigator and friends and that mage's friends cannot tell him he died 3 times, and the 3rd time he was killed he wasn't suppose to remember all the crap instigator did before killing him the 3rd time).
To me, it appears as if instigator only uses RP rules when in his favor.
As far as what we should do, our community on Fredian has determined it is bad to punish instigator because he might go somewhere else to kill other people, therefore we cannot take his possessions, imprison him for more than 10 minutes or execute him.
Personally, I think he should have a wanted poster put up for his capture. Anyone capturing him should be allowed to keep all his possessions, including gold and bank account if any. Then instigator should be imprisoned for long period of time or executed.
As far as his possessions go, he should only have his skivvies whent he judicial system is done with him. IMO, he is responsible for replacing his possessions.
But we don't have a judicial system so mage should hunt and kill instigator as often as is possible. When instigator killed mage 3 times he set the standards by which they should have encounters. Instigator should not be allowed to claim PKing if killed repeatedly, that is what instigator does.
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Post by Adyanna79 on Jan 26, 2004 14:51:01 GMT
Ok yes intigator... Was afterwards punish I did put a bounty on his head of a million and it was quite effective for he did brutally get kiled by many... :-)
Now my char was never directly link to the attack but this is ooc
I just wanted to make sure "I" understood the rule because I was also frustrated by the mixed up...
I have no problem folowing rule when I understand them but you must admit that the situation was pretty hazy.
Has for the roll when raise issue... I happen to be a level 18... therefore many can kill me and I cannot avenge myself alone... I roll when I get raise(always with witnesses and then if I do remnber there is a million gp on you head...) I still beleive that the roll is when raise if your aren't around it's too bad...
When I get killed (in RP) has soon as I wake up I want to resume the RP... If you can't stick around then suffer the consequences of leaving and having to beleive my witness... I mean what I am suppose to wait for my attacker to come and attack me again... NO I will start telling my friends who can take him on...
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Post by Phoenix on Jan 26, 2004 16:20:17 GMT
so uh what about when the attacker tells the attacked that he just killed him (even if the attacked lost his roll)? what then? Well some attackers want to gloat, some want to proove a point, some are crazy. If you don't remember, do you trust the person who says they just killed you? Those are all RP questions between the two. and what if those ppl's freinds, don't tell the person, but decide to come back (after having just witnessed or even heard about the attack on their freind) get some vengence themselves? what then? Again, those are RP questions, I just wonder what kind of friend wouldn't tell people. Imagine this, you and you friend are walking down the road. A third person, someone you both know, clock you friend upside the head, he's knocked out. The attacker runs away. Your friend wakes up not knowing what happened, do you really stay quite? 9/10 I would think not... Adyanna79, best thing you can do is follow the rules as you know them. No one should think poorly of you regardless how the other players act. When I run into people who don't follow the rules (like not rolling 2 times or more...) I send them a tell or ooc remark that I don't want to be involved in their RP any more, and to leave me/my party alone. If that doesn't convince them I look for a DM. |
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Post by addicted2rpg on Jan 27, 2004 0:39:10 GMT
You wake up some morning.
The phone rings.
You answer. It's a friend.
He says you were killed by your boss (or wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, teacher, classmate, whatever).
You laugh and tell him "Yeah, he has me overworked."
Your friend says, "No, seriously. They really killed you."
You check your calendar to see if it is April Fool's. Its not. You tell your friend to stop joking and hang up.
Even if you are insane enough to believe them, would you actually go out and get REVENGE?
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Post by Spathic on Jan 27, 2004 0:47:20 GMT
if i have bullet wounds hellz yeah i get revenge...
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Post by Percival on Jan 27, 2004 1:14:06 GMT
Ok, there is a general rule on most servers that seems to be not in effect here, or at least not enforced. RESPAWN ENDS PvP INVOLVEMENT
If you are resurected, then you have a chance to remember, but if you respawn, you have selected to end the scenario and should not be futher involved. A character who stays involved after a respawn is Griefing. Yes that means NO action should be taken involving the scenario. If you respawn then you have no business running right back to the same are and attacking the one who killed you or raising any of your comrads. By respawning YOU OPTED OUT.
In one of the cases mentioned in the start of this I was present but not involved. Adyanna respawned, ran back into the area after buffing and summoning a Dragon and blasted the other player into the next century. This was a flagrent violation of even the existing rules much less the general one I am talking of.
There is one server that does something I like that may be needed here. Respawned characters respawn into a "Death Area" that will not let them leave for 15 minutes. A jail of sorts. Logging off the server resets the timer so the next time they login they are sent right back to the "Death Area" to serve their 15 minutes. At release the door warns them that they choose to end the scenario and therefore can not continue the scenario under any circumastance. Short of PERMA DEATH this seems like the next best solution.
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Post by AvengersWraith on Jan 27, 2004 2:11:09 GMT
I was not witness to everything of either event, but if Adyanna was RPing a battle with the people is the first incident listed, she was only playing by their standards.
Without knowing all the details what can be said.
Maybe Mak and Addicted can come up with 1 set of standards for PvP (only PvP), people voluntarily jousting with each other will not be held to the PvP Standard. The only rule now is killed person roll d20 to see if you remember in front of the killer. It doesn't specify respawning causes you to forget automatically or that witnesses cannot try and tell you what happened. If killer leaves killed person on ground and doesn't reserrect or raise them they cannot see a d20 rolled on the emote wand.
How I would state them if up to me (and ideas for Mak and Addicted to review if they choose to set a standard):
1st: In order to kill another character you must have a valid RP reason, this can include insanity if you consitently play the character as insane, and you must be ready to explain your reason if asked by your victim, they have a right to know why they were killed so they can judge how to RP with you. If killer choses to kill someone not good at RPing or who doesn't RP he leaves himself open for the killed characters standards of smiting the one who just smote them or revenge at a later date. In other words, know your victims, see if they RP or play Hack & Slash.
2nd: Always have raise scrolls, reserrection scrolls or Rod of Reserrection on you before killing someone if you want them to roll d20 to see if they remember. If you leave your victim dead assume they will find out who killed them, whether they remember, someone tells them or they investigate. Bystanders and killed person need to give killer reasonable amount of time to raise or reserrect killed person. There are reasonable RP reasons that can extend amount of time to raise the person, always try within 2 minutes, but if other things like killed persons friends are fighting killer, wait for outcome unless you must actually leave in RL, you might enjoy watching the fight or seeing who all comes to avenge your death, sometimes it is like watching a movie.
2a: Killer does not raise or reserrect killed person for any reason then they do not get the benefit of knowing what or if the killed person rolled a d20 to see if they remember.
2b: Killed person elects to respawn before giving killer reasonable chance to raise or reserrect them they forfiet right to chance to remember and must play as if they forgot.
3: Witnesses have every right to tell someone they were killed and had to have magic used on them to bring them back, witnesses telling killed person about being killed gives killed person a second d20 roll, if killer wants to know about 2nd d20 roll he/she will need to stick around to find out what the roll is, which could give rise to immediate reprisal.
4: Killer cannot keep killing someone until they fail a d20 roll and expect them not to remember any deaths suffered where they remembered what happened.
5: Characters who kill people (characters or NPCs) in front of King's gaurds or knights should expect to lose all worldly possessions on their person, the King's gaurds and knights are not stupid, they will confiscate everything you own to let you know that killing people in their presence will not be tolerated, especially weapons, armor and magical items, you have shown yourself to be a threat. There are many places the King's gaurds and knights will not be in, be smart and choose one of those locations for a fight. If you are goaded into attacking while in the presence of a king's gaurd or knight you are not exempt from having possessions confiscated, if your character's pride is more important than your possessions attack in front of the king's gaurds or knights, otherwise issue a challange to meet elsewhere.
I am sure their could be more, but this should cover most PvP encounters, except trap setters.
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Post by Percival on Jan 27, 2004 20:30:58 GMT
This is what is say now just for FYI
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Post by Phoenix on Jan 27, 2004 20:45:26 GMT
You wake up some morning. The phone rings. You answer. It's a friend. He says you were killed by your boss (or wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, teacher, classmate, whatever). You laugh and tell him "Yeah, he has me overworked." Your friend says, "No, seriously. They really killed you." You check your calendar to see if it is April Fool's. Its not. You tell your friend to stop joking and hang up. Even if you are insane enough to believe them, would you actually go out and get REVENGE? If I wake up covered in blood, in a pool of blood, clothes cut to shreads, yes. The current addundum should resolve these issues. Well, at least make what people are doing against the rules. |
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Post by addicted2rpg on Jan 27, 2004 21:00:42 GMT
hmm, good point. Be sure to clean the corpses garments/armor well first, and use resurrect instead of raise.  |
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"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 
