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Post by MadJunky on Feb 11, 2004 12:31:09 GMT
Ok mind all of you that I do enjoy this server but I like a "harder core style".
There are a few things that come to mind and I will mention them.
1. Immunities... there should be none.
I hate immunity items because that should all be dealt with in your char build and what stats you choose there.
Immunity Items only allow you to overpower one stat over another because you know you can get an Item to make you immune to one. Resistance is what should be used.
Since the cloak that makes you immune to crits was nerfed I think that all of the immunes should be taken out as well. With no immune to crits the fighters now have a super tip of the scales of power. They can now stock up on immune to magics and knockdowns and overwhelm anyone.
I think that the Immune to magic items should be nerfed as well as the immune to knockdowns...
Dump immune and do resistance...
well maybe not mind effect helm, because that helm just
makes sense...
2. Ok back on the cleric issue.. I feel that because I play a cleric myself. I say don’t raise or lower prices just remove heals and maybe even heal critical wounds and put the medic kits in there. Let the Heal skill actually serve its purpose. If that is done then people will actually want a cleric around or carry MANY heal moderate wound potions. That would be easy and would work.
3. The portal issue...
Ok I know its "neat" and all but the portals actually make it too easy to get around for me.. It hinders exploration and actually having to travel or journey to get from place to place. I don’t like the book of Kel. I haven’t since the beginning... It makes it too easy to get from place to place without actually having to travel.. This in turn removes any role-play on the go. It makes areas centralized and makes the world seem so much smaller...
A possible solution would be to charge to use portals like 1000 to temple 5000 to Wil 25000 to Rah and so forth or even more...
As far as the book of Kel... I know its handy and neat but dump it.
4. Areas with no purpose...
Ok I was thinking about some of the LESSER Immune stuff or spells that should be rarer.. even heal potions. If you only sell them WAY out without the portal system it would make other places worth going to I mean in places where it is hard to get to and you would actually need a group to get there figher/cleric/rogue/mage...
Like an immune to death magic cloak might be found in a shop in the underdark where you have to be a drow to deal with the shopkeeper... or heals could only be picked up off the body of a mob that is in a far out area that is hard to get to...
Well that is my 2 cents
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Post by maylstryx on Feb 11, 2004 13:19:29 GMT
Nice post and though what your asking for is hardcore I agree on your reasoning for it and wouldnt complain if Makz implemented some of these.
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Post by Makzimia on Feb 11, 2004 14:37:51 GMT
I already have removal of the magic school immunities off items that are craftable on my list for today, I was pretty sure I had already removed full heal potions out of stores, I will double check that today. Other things are done as I get to them. Most of these things were put on by Druga, and okayed by me, due to not really thinking in terms of PvP, but I see that as a problem, and am fixing it.
Makz.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2004 15:23:40 GMT
I agree for the most part. I do like the book, though I admit its because I miss teleport/dimension door.
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Post by Makzimia on Feb 11, 2004 16:00:32 GMT
Almost forgot to answer one thing in that, which, I thought, was pretty obvious really, portals only work initially to east styne woods and whillem  you have to be level 20 to go elsewhere by them. Ke'Haar stones do not stop exploration at all... you have to go somewhere first, and then if you decide you want to be able to get back to a place that has a stone, you can store up to 3 locations YOU HAVE BEEN!!  Makz. |
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Post by Zhoreb on Feb 11, 2004 18:01:05 GMT
Excellent suggestions. I like this server more than enough to not play anywhere else, but I wouldn't mind a little more HCR here and there. 1) I am all for removing immunity items. But then this nwn engine bit would start to bother me, the automatic fail/miss on a natural 1 (and the automatic hit/success on a natural 20). --> Devastating Critical, Monk/Palemaster unlimited death attacks for example. If you start removing things, where does it end? Finding the right balance is a sheer impossible task. 2) Yes, remove them all! (*evil grin*, just started a cleric) But serious, I think Healing and Resurrection is too easy and too cheap. I don't think a character with WIS < 17 should be able to use a Rod or Scroll of Resurrection for example, that's the minimum requirement for a Cleric to be able to cast it (and be lvl 13+). But alas those are not even PnP/HCR rules (ok in case of scrolls it is....) 3) I don't really have problems with the portal issue. You have to walk to the stone at least once before you can portal there. And the book inscriptions are not persistent. I think they are extremely usefull, especially for crafters. Try walking to the farmlands and back to the tailor a few times in a row, you will know what I mean Charging the use of the regular portals is a good idea, but i must admit that i hardly use them any more since we have the good book of Ke'haar. Why not make using the book a little more difficult, for example, you need some diamond dust to sprinkle on the right page before you can portal. 4) No real opinion here. I have not encountered many totally useless area's. Take the South Point for example. Not much happening there, but it has some skinnable creatures. |
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Feb 11, 2004 19:13:29 GMT
A slightly different angle on balance...
In my opinion, one of the reasons that everyone packs a gross of potions of Heal and enough parchment to decoupage Styne Castle is because of the superabundance of money. Anyone with modest crafting skills can very quickly amass a fortune, and therefore has the income to dispose on such luxury items. (Yes, I said luxury... I find it astonishing that chars pack around some of the things they do, myself included.) If money were scarcer/items were more expensive perhaps that would address some of these issues while still having these nifty items available for true emergencies.
I'm not sure that in *most* instances favouring an HCR approach will enrich the Fredian experience. Most of the hardcore RP folks already roleplay a number of things that HCR would entail (afaict), and the non-hardcores won't care to have it enforced upon them.
I'm not asking/begging/demanding for any changes to be made to the economy here, but I am curious to hear the thoughts of others on this one. So? Anything I missed in this hasty analysis? Pipe up already Fredians;-)
Hanah
... those two stars under my name make me smile
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2004 19:38:30 GMT
Acutally the last change to the buy/sell prices made people more rich. The buy prices were increased so you could ID an item (100gp) and still make money off it selling it after you ID it. With some loewr end items you lost money after IDing it and selling it. Since the idea that people were already making too much money was floated when this was changed, I dobut that side of the equation will be changed.
Since the price of a single item can't be modified w/o changing the whole store's sell price the potions/rods couldn't be setup to cost more. One possible solution to this is to setup a store that only sells these things, and have the sell price jacked up for the whole store. I'm not sure if that gets around the sell price issue, but I think it would.
So if you can't change the sell price of the item, and you can't lower the buy price for items, removing them is the only alternative. I'm curious to see how this gets played out, could be great, and makes priest's heal spell worth while again.
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Post by Spathic on Feb 11, 2004 20:43:47 GMT
oooooo.... thats a good idea! Maybe a certain peddler in a certain far out place Could sell Heals for big cash alongside maps of the blacklake....
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Post by Makzimia on Feb 11, 2004 21:22:03 GMT
hey smart alec I removed that the very first day after!!  Heal potions are a cheap method of fighting, and FYI the ONLY way to make things SUPER expensive is to make them custom and add cost to them in that. I am not going to start farting around with all sorts of things like that... you will have to live with how costs are in that respect. Bioware in their infinite wisdom made a system where items do cost so much gold and therefor when you sell them even at 20% of value, they can make serious amounts in less time as you sell more items... live with it... I don't care.. you can't carry more than 1 million anyway, or deposit more than 9 so... do what you like with it. Anyway you go you'll get lot's of gold. It's a game, a PC game software...repeat it's a GAME!!!!!! chill out stop trying to make it more complex. |
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Post by Spathic on Feb 11, 2004 22:40:43 GMT
Heh heh i knew you wouldn't put them back in since it would defeat the purpose... but i must make jokes at your expense when possible you understand...
Still it would be cool for there to be interesting stuff in that one place... it's a long walk for the same stuff you can get in town.... heh heh...
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Post by Silentus on Feb 12, 2004 17:19:01 GMT
As I've said and shown before, I am a little more towards the HCR than the server is setup as, but not a total freak with it either. My thoughts on your post MadJunky:
1. Immunities - 100% agree, Makz already took care of most of that issue.
2. Clerics & Med Kits - 95% agree, Heals should be VERY rare and far away from any portal/KeHaar. (which Makz again has addressed already) Cure Serious should be available though - they dont do that much for characters over 25th level anyway, then again, the eal kit serves that purpose just as well. Lets make that heal skill worth something - Viva la Heal Kits!
3a. Portals - 0% agree, the portals are fine. They are limited by level, and for the most part are rare and far spread.
3b. KeHaar - 33% agree, I think that KeHaar might be a little too much. Perhaps only 2 locations storable instead of 3?
4. I think that all immunitie items should stay gone - period. Resistance is good. Reduction is good. Immunities should come from your characters build. Heals far away from portals/kehaar sounds great, as well as in rare drops.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2004 17:42:22 GMT
Yea! heal packs are usefull again! Now I can use those 25 skill points!!! I think my average heal with a kit is better than any potions since heals are gone.
About immunities, what are your thoughts on immune to: death, knockdown, mind affecting provided by non-crafted items?
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Post by Makzimia on Feb 12, 2004 17:43:34 GMT
My thoughts are the subject of non crafts with those things are staying in, so end of discussion . Makz. |
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you have to be level 20 to go elsewhere by them. Ke'Haar stones do not stop exploration at all... you have to go somewhere first, and then if you decide you want to be able to get back to a place that has a stone, you can store up to 3 locations YOU HAVE BEEN!! 
