Epic Battlefield

[clark625]

Okay, maybe we'll have a second server on Fredian, or maybe we won't (that's yet to be official). Assuming we did, however, have a second server up and running and it had all new areas, would it be possible and realistic to add a battlefield area that would allow massive guild versus guild battles?

The reason behind my request is that it's neat to see various guilds rp with one another, but currently if they go to war, it's a war in the streets (which can be good and bad, depending how you want to look at it). It would be awesome to see full 15 on 15 battles, or even 20 on 20. Just think of some neat good versus evil type battles that could go on, with great leaders on either side, fighters and such on a front line, archers and mages up on a ridge, a cleric running about, and rogues slipping behind the enemy's lines to take advantage.

Of course, the biggest issue is that this type of battle will certainly cause a ton of lag. That's why I'm curious as to whether it can be put on the second server (should we have one, of course), since at least in the begining there may not be lots of areas for people to explore and it may go underutilized.

Alright.... does this even seem possible, or do I need to go take some more pain killers?

[Silentus]

There are already regions in which that would work fine. The north half of the northern farmlands is nearly an open field... Whillem forest of Darkness is a nice forest setting with few other obsticles. If you like obsticles, the Fredian Sinkholes would be an excellent option. By nature, making such an area specific for this purpose would require that it be FAR from the center of things (as exterior development only occurs on the fringes of the landmass) so existing locations might be a better idea.

[serpitus]

Heck Why look for open area without spawns. Why not use Alveria or Clevian. Send a rouge in to hit the spawns on the other guilds generals and bang instant sway to the tide of battle. Imagine the faces on the other guild when 2 wasteland giants do exactly what they are designed to do.

[clark625]

Don't get me wrong--I think there's several good places for battles currently. The problem is that if 30 people all go toe-to-toe at the same time, the server goes to pot for everyone (and those not in the battle aren't really too happy). If it's possible, I would like to see the second server be the one to take lag away from the first server (hence the original need for the second server). With that in mind, why not design in a place that's got a "history" of many great battles?

[taylor]

fresh of the PVP server i was doing a battle field in a village which was pretty cool, although my team let made me a piece of bate without knowlede you can see the fun in having street battles, i think if they are street they should be much smaller with stairwells over looking the place for archers and spellcasters.

i dont see why the server goes pot with 30 people fighting unless their all spellcasters, but even then it shouldnt bring the server down that bad, only thing that could do that is probably a DM but they couldnt even if they tried.

as for the idea of a battlefield i say that if you was to build im not making any suggestions until makz is top form so this is opinion... you have a battle field with drow carcasses warped carcasses guards carcasses.

[addicted2rpg]

I'm responding to this more as a player than as a DM at the moment. It is a personal take on NWN PvP and doesn't necessarily indicate what we'll do with it on Fredian per se...

For a 20 on 20 battle, you need go no further than bastion wars arena PvP. You won't find much teamwork except if you login on a lucky day when people decide to stay together. I think the way you perceive NWN brawls might be a little umm... incosistent... with the way the game really works. I mean, I admit I think it would be cool to have your general on the hill and have guys stand there trying to hold the gate etc.. etc... but the reality of is, you're going to have spells in the air everywhere, lots of voiceset chats, and a few dev crits later, in no longer than say a minute, there will be one side left standing and the other will be completely annhilated. I know my Tourney fights have exceeded 27 minutes in some 1 vs. 1 duels, but in groups it goes way faster for some reason, mostly as the easy people drop groups begin multi-targeting the same person and they fall faster and faster in succession. You'll find this in BoW too. A server that isn't worth a darn anymore, but in its good days Realms of the Lost Legion also had a considerable amount of faction/guild PvP going on and the group fights were always quick. I did a 7 vs. 7 there once and we floored the other team in what seemed like instantly, although there was a few acts of heroism.

I mean, I can see like 10 people standing and around and saying, "ready, set, go!" with the people with the slower load times going first and everyone kehaar to the same place where a victim is (most likely scouted by a hidden rogue). I've actually taken NWN that far on RoLL, but really it is an action game in its symantecs, and an RP game in its art/human elements. I'm just talking about the symantecs. Action games have style, technique, and tricks, but they lack the chessboard/strategy effect you're talking about. Your good leaders, archers on the ridge, clerics and rogues, etc.. will progress pretty fast, in which case it becomes a well-planned attack against an unsuspecting force. And you're not going to find an unsuspecting force in a battle arena. So what you are going to get is two very well prepared sides. Instead of it dragging out in the strategic show-down, it will eventually result in both sides ceding their vantage points and swinging (and casting) at eachother in a raw battle mess.

I once wrote a battle scenario for a MUD. I'll incorporate some of those concepts into the robbable treasury in RCS.

[MitzaVolchenko]

Who needs a special place to run guild wars? The Warders always have considered the entire island their special territory and they still do (though they no longer have me as their mastermind). We have hled our guild battles everywhere from the desert sands to the dungeons below the castle, and from Styne courtyards to Mysaides' living room.
*shrugs*
Bottom line is if ya want to go for it, you go for it...gods know I wouldn't walk the Warders onto a prepped battlefield...heh...poor little spies and archers would get eaten alive by the dev critters...

[ride]

MitzaVolchenko said:

...to Mysaides' living room.
*shrugs*

I always thought that the epic battleground *was* there.... lol

[Makzimia]

Epic battles in NWN? *laughs so hard he falls off his chair* ummm... ever been in an area with even just 20 people? nwserver/nwn was never meant for that, keep your dreams alive for when Dragon Age finally comes

Makz.

[Phoenix]

I don't know about 'epic sized' but there have I been in some rather large frays. One thing I like about not having a 'set' spot is the variety in tactics available for the different areas. Whillem/Mysaides' home (does everyone have a key?) is a frequent battle ground as it is...

But I think people are missing the simpleness of this request, it's not for a single battle ground per say, it's a place to have larger battles w/o affecting the performance on the other server in a 2 server system. Sure a 'battle ground' area might be nice, but the idea of keeping lag intensive actions on the second server, is exactlly what I have been thinking about.

If we drop a second server in, with all new areas, one server will likely get more useage. I assume this will be what is the current server. So, how do we move people over to the new one. New areas of course will be the primary draw. Makz. is very good at spreading things around to force people to move/explore, but what else can we do? Some sort of area for people to go to for larger battles might just fit the bill...

[serpitus]

Phoenix Wrote:

But I think people are missing the simpleness of this request, it's not for a single battle ground per say, it's a place to have larger battles w/o affecting the performance on the other server in a 2 server system. Sure a 'battle ground' area might be nice, but the idea of keeping lag intensive actions on the second server, is exactlly what I have been thinking about.

Ohh you got the brain in gear ,for me, Phoenix
Areas like the collesium were in question due to the #of placeables vs lag. So your assessment has merit. But and I have very litle experience *forefinger almost pressed to thumb* in toolset and yada yada yada. But it seems the size of area is controllable because lower freidian is 1/2 as wide as long and some areas are square. Placeables/people in these areas seem to cause lag. The more room the more placeables for aesthetics. The more lag? I think!
My question is how big of and area can be created? Let me define area as what I am trying to say. West styne is and area, mines level 100 is an area etc...
So can an area be made 100 times as large? Now there is a lot of palceables and room for people but if the second server was one big (1000 times as big) area what is the lag issues there. Now I dont see the big picture. But, a second server that was one humungous area pushing the limits of lag could be a very new perpective on the big picture. Of course If the biggest area available by the toolset is something like Castille then this is moot. Hmm I need another hobby *thinks about toolset, Character building, IoF community, RP stories vs New hooby * *goes back to former and smiles*

[Phoenix]

Remember, there are two types of lagging to be concernend with.

Server lag. This is noticable by a lag in the time you start an action, and the time it takes palce. You click on the ground to move, 2 seconds later you start walking. Casting a spell may take a few seconds to start.

Client lag. This is noticable when your FPS take a dump. You click on the ground to move, and start immediatly, but 'jump around' on the screen. If you cast a spell, it will start immediatly, but the animations will be choppy.

The placable's cause client lag, your PC isn't beefy enough to render the objects/lighting/shadows. The server isn't lagging JUST because the collosuem is there, only you lag when viewing it.

I'm not sure, but I think that lots of people in an area doesn't lag the server, just your PC. When battle ensues, I imagine that's different.

Q to Makz.,
What ARE the biggest resource hogging activities server side? Crafting, fighting monsers, loading levels, exploring, casting spells, chatting, what?

[serpitus]

Before this spirals out of control into a discussion of lag sources I was just thinking out loud. My lag is caused by my ISP.

My queston was how big can an area be? Lets say weststyne is 10X10 can an area be made 1000 x 1000 or 10,000 x 10,000 units or bigger. The bigger, the more people and placeables and when does it become unmanageable after being optimized. Could one whole server dedicated to one area make a unique area in proportions of size. Or is there a limit set like 24x24 units by the toolset? It may seem obvious the answer but I again no nothing about the toolset.

[Silentus]

There is a toolset limit. I dont recall exactly how it phrases it, but I believe the Great Fredian Forest uses it

[taylor]

knowing very little about the toolset you get a selection of 4 different sizes.

then the width and length i believe that is the amount of detail though it might not be i believe the highest it is, is 32 X 32