Post by Naraldur on Jul 27, 2004 16:39:27 GMT
I'm in the mood for a good rant, and for a rant to be good, it needs to be heard, even if not by many. Of course, I don't want to start a flame war, so this had best be locked, especially due to the fact that a very similar thread was already locked (actually, I had this typed in as a reply there, but it was locked literally seconds before I hit "submit" 
).
I do not intend to bring this topic up again, so you don't need to worry about me making a habit of this.
Basically, I mean what I say at the very bottom.
[glow=red,2,300]BEGIN RANT[/glow]
Now, I'd really love to ride whatever the heck Lance Armstrong is riding. He's a champion after all. Assuming I could afford it, sure, I'd go out and buy that bike, and take it home to ride to the corner store.
However... I have not trained my body like Lance Armstrong. I don't have enough experience on such a finely tuned machine. I simply haven't reached the level where I can take full advantage of that bike. The problem isn't the bike, it's me.
So until such time as I'm a champion cyclist myself, I will just have to slowly progress from the garage sale discount, to the athletic store special, to the specialty shoppe masterpiece. Someday, maybe I can ride a custom bike like Lance Armstrong. Maybe I'll be able to get full use out of it then.
This isn't meant to be mean-spirited or condescending. I'm just describing how I see the ILR as being justified. Sure, in my allegory I *could* ride around on Lance's bike, I'm not 'unable to equip it'. But I'm sure not getting its full potential out of it. I imagine it would be obscenely difficult to scale each item in NWN for each user's level, so this is a workaround.
Hanah
Erm... the bike would still work fine, though. You wouldn't use it as well, but it would still work fine. ILR's don't have any applicability to that at all. If a level one character had a warhammer +5, he would still get beat down by, say, an iron golem. A fourth-level fighter with full plate +5 would still have no chance against a level 15 mage, who would just vaporize him in one blast.
In fact, I think I'll use your comparison to support my point here (element being compared to in parentheses). IRL's are like if Lance Armstrong (my Dwarven Defender, Stalwart...) fully possessed the ability (...at level 14) to win the Tour de France (beat an iron golem) but couldn't even enter it (damage the golem) because he has to have a custom bike (warhammer +5) to get in the race (damage the golem). He has the money (gold) to get the bike (warhammer), but he can't legally get on the bike (equip the warhammer) because the law says that you have to have won 25 major races to ride a custom bike (equip the warhamer) and thus enter the Tour de France (fight the golem). Lance has only won 20 major races, so he has to win another 5 to ride the bike and thus enter the Tour de France, because legally, you can't ride a custom bike unless you've won 25 major races, because the powers that be say so (he has to level up because he's arbitrarily restricted from using the necessary warhammer).
Without the 25-race restriction, it would be more like: Lance (Stalwart) has the skill (level) to win the Tour de France (fight the golem), so he buys the bike (warhammer) and enters the race (attacks the golem).
The latter version seems reasonable to me, I'm just frustrated. I imagine Lance would be frustrated if he wasn't allowed to enter & win the Tour de France because he isn't allowed to ride a custom bike due to an arbitrary.
Now for the hack and slash part, you really thing that a lvl 3 character should have a full plate armor that gives him +22 AC, a longsword that deals 10 dmg for fire with 10 divine that also has a +10 - 12 enhancement, or ... god forbid +10 strength off the bat!
If he is actually able to acquire that gear, certainly. For starters, I was not aware of such powerful gear in IoF. That must make it at least mildly difficult to find. Secondly, even if gear that powerful DID exist, what harm would it cause? Fatal arrogance? Come on, the first enervation trap he hit when crawling through some higher-level crypt would splatter him across the ground instantly. Anything above level 10 would kill him, I mean, he only gets one swing with that sword per round, it would take like four hits to kill his enemy, and one hit from the enemy (not unlikely against a char with only 30-40 AC) would squish his measly 39-hit-point *ss. That's to say nothing of creatures with elemental attacks. *Dragon breathes fire.* Bye.
However, this subject has been visited in the past. There was a nice long thread about ILR.
Quite simply, Makz has said then that ILR will not be removed, no matter what.
Yeah, I know, in fact, I probably started that ;D (I've been bugging Makz about this, to a greater or lesser degree, since Talus) I wasn't expecting a change, I just felt like arguing over it. Won't try it again.
[glow=red,2,300]END RANT. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MY OPINION IS IN THE MINORITY AND THAT I DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ALTER THE SITUATION AND, ALSO, THAT I ACCEPT THIS AS REASONABLE.[/glow]
).I do not intend to bring this topic up again, so you don't need to worry about me making a habit of this.
Basically, I mean what I say at the very bottom.[glow=red,2,300]BEGIN RANT[/glow]
Hanah said:
Let's say I've been watching too much Tour de France coverage, and I decide I want to take up cycling.Now, I'd really love to ride whatever the heck Lance Armstrong is riding. He's a champion after all. Assuming I could afford it, sure, I'd go out and buy that bike, and take it home to ride to the corner store.
However... I have not trained my body like Lance Armstrong. I don't have enough experience on such a finely tuned machine. I simply haven't reached the level where I can take full advantage of that bike. The problem isn't the bike, it's me.
So until such time as I'm a champion cyclist myself, I will just have to slowly progress from the garage sale discount, to the athletic store special, to the specialty shoppe masterpiece. Someday, maybe I can ride a custom bike like Lance Armstrong. Maybe I'll be able to get full use out of it then.
This isn't meant to be mean-spirited or condescending. I'm just describing how I see the ILR as being justified. Sure, in my allegory I *could* ride around on Lance's bike, I'm not 'unable to equip it'. But I'm sure not getting its full potential out of it. I imagine it would be obscenely difficult to scale each item in NWN for each user's level, so this is a workaround.
Hanah
Erm... the bike would still work fine, though. You wouldn't use it as well, but it would still work fine. ILR's don't have any applicability to that at all. If a level one character had a warhammer +5, he would still get beat down by, say, an iron golem. A fourth-level fighter with full plate +5 would still have no chance against a level 15 mage, who would just vaporize him in one blast.
In fact, I think I'll use your comparison to support my point here (element being compared to in parentheses). IRL's are like if Lance Armstrong (my Dwarven Defender, Stalwart...) fully possessed the ability (...at level 14) to win the Tour de France (beat an iron golem) but couldn't even enter it (damage the golem) because he has to have a custom bike (warhammer +5) to get in the race (damage the golem). He has the money (gold) to get the bike (warhammer), but he can't legally get on the bike (equip the warhammer) because the law says that you have to have won 25 major races to ride a custom bike (equip the warhamer) and thus enter the Tour de France (fight the golem). Lance has only won 20 major races, so he has to win another 5 to ride the bike and thus enter the Tour de France, because legally, you can't ride a custom bike unless you've won 25 major races, because the powers that be say so (he has to level up because he's arbitrarily restricted from using the necessary warhammer).
Without the 25-race restriction, it would be more like: Lance (Stalwart) has the skill (level) to win the Tour de France (fight the golem), so he buys the bike (warhammer) and enters the race (attacks the golem).
The latter version seems reasonable to me, I'm just frustrated. I imagine Lance would be frustrated if he wasn't allowed to enter & win the Tour de France because he isn't allowed to ride a custom bike due to an arbitrary.
Now for the hack and slash part, you really thing that a lvl 3 character should have a full plate armor that gives him +22 AC, a longsword that deals 10 dmg for fire with 10 divine that also has a +10 - 12 enhancement, or ... god forbid +10 strength off the bat!
If he is actually able to acquire that gear, certainly. For starters, I was not aware of such powerful gear in IoF. That must make it at least mildly difficult to find. Secondly, even if gear that powerful DID exist, what harm would it cause? Fatal arrogance? Come on, the first enervation trap he hit when crawling through some higher-level crypt would splatter him across the ground instantly. Anything above level 10 would kill him, I mean, he only gets one swing with that sword per round, it would take like four hits to kill his enemy, and one hit from the enemy (not unlikely against a char with only 30-40 AC) would squish his measly 39-hit-point *ss. That's to say nothing of creatures with elemental attacks. *Dragon breathes fire.* Bye.
However, this subject has been visited in the past. There was a nice long thread about ILR.
Quite simply, Makz has said then that ILR will not be removed, no matter what.
Yeah, I know, in fact, I probably started that ;D (I've been bugging Makz about this, to a greater or lesser degree, since Talus) I wasn't expecting a change, I just felt like arguing over it. Won't try it again.
[glow=red,2,300]END RANT. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MY OPINION IS IN THE MINORITY AND THAT I DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ALTER THE SITUATION AND, ALSO, THAT I ACCEPT THIS AS REASONABLE.[/glow]
