Evil city...

[abadon]

Ok from what I understand west styne is for new people and castille for higher level's... But higher level's never leave west styne and hang out there instead. Now west styne has alot of more ic and ooc rules then castille. And thats what makes castille alot more fun. But with no one at castille its not fun... And im assuming with the new comers all the high level's in west styne are not that fun either...

And in both places there are knights. So still if there were alot of people in castille the knights would still be there to hassle you... And if your evil and you do a crime and a knight chases you, you usally run to castille and then the desert... But now the knights chase you into the desert? So evil can only run to alvaria and the knights dont chase you there because there to lazy... So what you have is a bunch of evil talking to good and ever so often commiting a crime which they are sure to go to jail for...

After all that my suggestion is an evil city... Such as a city in the underdark in alvaria... No knights and no ruler.. It would be alot like west styne. Black smith an evil temple to say lloth... Drow, half fiend, and such npc's... And basically no rules, ooc or ic... And if people complain about always getting killed or being pickpocketed of all there stuff then why do they come there? If you dont like it dont come there... And you would have to level 20 to even come there anyways... And as for the ruler of the city it would be the pc's and whoever has the most friends... It would attracted most of the high levels out of west styne and it would give evil a place to go...

All in all if you be evil you almost cant escape... And if you do the knights think up some ooc rule you broke just to report you to the dm's... Me being evil would like a place without the knights and rules... And also a drow/evil city. ;D And if you dont like the city then dont come... Simple as that.

[Makzimia]

No rules are "just thought up" on Fredian. Courtesy and common sense are the main ones... and again, despite anyones reactions to a knights IC play, each and every knight has been picked based on responsibilty as a person, not as their PC . As for evil places, that is up to the knight how he or she handles a situation, he/she may go in disguise. What you fail to realise, due I am sure partially to being newish, and partially to not taking time to read a lot of what came before... we have been through this more times than I can count and, there is a designated "Evil " area, and a designated evil city in fact.... but, RP of either or, is the responsibilty of the players. West Styne will ALWAYS be uique. And if you don't want to end up in strife, stay out of there if you are going to run around doing things.... like I personally have seen you get up to there.. and go to the North Desert etc.... others who have been around longer will steer you right, IF, you actually listen, and take it in.

Makz.

[abadon]

What do you meen evil city? Were is it? And as far as staying out of west styne... I try that and do that but usally its just me and wino... I meen castille is just a bigger styne... So it doesnt really attract people to come there. And as far as the desert... The knights chase me there now. And a few times the knight just come to castille to run me down... And I cant go to the desert they chase me there... And friday night. I had not broke a crime the whole day. And some level 40 palidine walks up to me in castille and turns hostile and starts attacking saying im going to jail... Never seen her on the server and dont know why she would want to do that... So even if I dont be evil and stay out of west styne I have people just trying to start somthing with me...

Now lets say I commit a crime in castille. A knight sees me and puts me in jail... Ok now a palidine attacks an evil person in castille and gets away with it because she is good and the other is evil... So a good can attack an evil and after thats over go to west styne and relax... However an evil cant. I thought the desert was for the evil to relax without fear of the knights.. It isnt to cozy anyways but thats beside the point... But the knights go there and start attacking you. So basicaly on the whole island if you commit a crime your as good as in jail because you have no were to go except alvaria and the only civilized place there is the temple and it has driders...

And as for disguise if abadon tried that it wouldnt work.. If he put pink on some wannabe knight or a real knight would go after him as soon as they saw him... If your evil and you do that your breaking an ooc rule..

Im just saying as an evil player I want somwhere without fear of the knights and all the things that styne as such as stores temples... Unless the island/server is a good island and not neautral then I understand... But at the moment I beleive its a neautral island/server with the exception of good having a place to relax and have fun without breaking a rule...

[Phoenix]

OK, I quite a bit of info on this one for you Abadon. I also have see a problem I'd like the knights to address.

But now the knights chase you into the desert?

First, as Makz. mentioned, there ARE places for evil, and, in fact and evil town (sort-of). These places are NOT for the knights, it doesn't mean knights can't go there, just that they have no authority there.

This was all hashed out in the original Criminal Justice discussions, found here. makzimia.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=criminal&action=display&thread=1077375266

Specificaly section 2D on Jurisdiction.
D. Knights may give chase to suspects in all areas except:
Fredian Desert North
Sovereign territories (Currently all Ranestadt, Ferrus, Alvearia & Clevian Areas)
Private residences (if permission to enter is not recieved)

The N. Desert is still on that list, and IS a safe haven for evil. (It took a fair amount of convincing to get this area in the list, but it happened and it's an evil area). Clevian is also an evil city, but it's not 'for evil PCs' it's a monster city, same with Alveria.

Knights,

Now, I have heard this is not being followed. This should change ASAP in my opinion. These are rules we all need to follow, at the very least because they are posted. Someone complaining about a knight not following these guidelines would have a legit complain. All in all, the general idea is, if you could make it to one of these places, you 'got away' until the next time. That's how evil 'wins,' and makes a RP fun for them too.

Remember, that's the point of this, fun. If the end result of every crime is jailing, that isn't fun for the evil people.

Makz., consider this...

Have the N. Desert 'grow' a little. It already has a crafting hall, and a bar. The only things missing from that area to make it a small town, is a couple of more buildings or tents (virtualy functionless), a better vendor, and maybe a quest or two to draw people out there.

Might I suggest a very evil quest to an NPCs or two? Maybe Hili (already a tough fight at certian levels) or Wren (beef him up a little for fights).

Abadon,

Things are not as bad as you make them out the be... The Red Wizard rarely visits the jail, but frequently commits crimes.

"7/31/2004 The Red Wizard Assault Wanted Aviar Assault, aided in jail break - 500k gp reward "

*hmm, only 500k, I know I saw a 2mil. reward, time to get to work...*

That's over a months of freedom.

[Phoenix]

And as for disguise if abadon tried that it wouldnt work..

While we all fall into the 'hit tab and see who's around your' syndrome, I don't think that if you responded "//I'm in disguise, unless you have a way to tell who I am, you don't know," most people would RP it out.

Expecting them not to notice you *just* because you walked into an area in a new outfit is a little much. After all, you don't re-introduce yourself when you don new armour (the opposite of expecting them not to notice you is having to tell them who you are again).

[abadon]

Well I ran to the north desert and the 2 knights followed me there and captured me... With there lasso's... Thats another thing. If north desert is for evil then disable those stupid lasso's they use there. All they have to do is walk up to you and lasso you... Last night I was going to stop and follow them to jail as to serve my time for a change but first I wanted to talk to them and kept begging for them to stay back so I could watch that laso and they said fine. And ran up to me and used it anyway...

And when I first started being evil I broke a few ooc rules (being new) but the past week I have been completly ic yet the knights continue to tell me ooc that im breaking rules... Most of the time when they have chased me for and hour and finally relize they cant catch me...

But like phoenix said, there may be an evil city but nothing attracts people there.. So you get lonely. I meen take all the npc and quest out of styne and put them in the desert and see were people hang out...

[addicted2rpg]

I actually had a PC that a knight chased to Ranastadt which is clearly and totally out of jurisdiction, but that knight was also lawful evil. I had considered creating a little performance by the "mayor of ranastadt" issuing boundary violation complaints to Castille or Styne, but given that I had wiped the knight out and got away, I figured the mayor would let it go.

The desert is a no man's land, and this to an extent makes it an evil town. But if a paladin shows up and kills every last man, woman, and child because he thought they were "evil", Fredian law (not DM law, but Castillian law) isn't going to be looking at what happens out there.

A lawful evil knight who busts you in the desert (maybe even for doing nothing), takes your gold, and drags you back as a "criminal" and says he found you in the city instead, well, then that is tough. Of course there is an exception. If you're not wanting to roleplay along with that or you feel you are being griefed.... well, use the normal channels to report knight abuses. Take a screen shot (press print-screen). Mail it to a DM. I accept screen shots at [e-mail]. fyi I only accept screen shots at that address. Ideas or other views sent to me in e-mail will be asked that they be aired on the forums instead (that is what they're for, right?)

We'll handle it in a fair and balanced way from there.
---

An actual evil city, for evil, w/ the temple of lolth thing.
Yep, we've discussed it. Module size was something in the way. Also responsible play styles were a concern because of an "us against them" positioning it creates. I think it is just pigeonholed at the moment. It depends what Makz has in mind for Fredian2

[Phoenix]

Alignment be darned (didn't type 'darned' but whatever proboards ), why have a safe haven if there is always an * next to it denoting one of a thousand possible roleplays? Heck what does alignment mean to most people? I only see it used as a shield, and never a club. IE, no one ever uses alignment as a restriction, only an excuse. Good pale masters are a wonderful ex. of this. Besides a LE char would still respect the law, and not give chase. A CG knight would fit that bill better than LE.

Knights are not to give chase into the regions listed there, these are trusted player, and perhaps they were not aware of the limits to a knight? I can't answer that, but what I am reffering to is in black and white. The use of the lasso was specifically discussed in thses areas as well.

Now if a knight PC wants to act outside the law (no lasso, no crime report, no jail, etc.). Then sure, they can give chase, but this shouldn't start as a criminal issue. I see this as something like killing the knights wife or something that would personaly affect the knight and motivate them to persue you beyond the legal limits.

edit: to further my N. Desert--> evil town idea, forgot to list, there IS an evil temple there too!!!

[Silentus]

There is a fair chance that some of the knights were not aware about the N. Desert - that was all hashed out around January. If a knight does pursue you there (with authority) it would be wise to talk to them ooc for a sec to make sure they are aware. They should all be reading the forums, but things happen and as new knights come onboard they will likely not see everything right off either.

[Phoenix]

How's that song go? B-I-N-G-O!

[abadon]

Silentus said:

There is a fair chance that some of the knights were not aware about the N. Desert - that was all hashed out around January. If a knight does pursue you there (with authority) it would be wise to talk to them ooc for a sec to make sure they are aware. They should all be reading the forums, but things happen and as new knights come onboard they will likely not see everything right off either.

Talk to them? Umm I tried that and they lied to me and used the lasso...

[Phoenix]

If they are aware of those rules and are not following those them, take a SS and e-mail it. If there is a problem with a knight, only a DM/Makz. can resolve that.

[Silentus]

As far as lying to you goes, trust me, Makz selects his staff carefully. Im sure they didnt lie to you deliberately - they probably were uninformed on proper protocol reguarding N. Desert. Note it is ONLY the N. Desert region as well, not all the desert regions out there.

[kline]

Hey my temple is out there is the desert and it is cozy;) Anyways, if a knight as stated above chases you into the desert, then he is doing it of his own free will. There is no law in the desert. That being said if you commit a crime in the desert to someone or something it is not illegal, because there is no law there the crime can not be reported. And as you already know I will not chase you ever into the desert. If I take over a knight I will strictly do it to protect the town. If you go to the desert I will end my chase right there. ;D

I have already been over this before it seems several times... The desert is an evil place, no laws, if you go there I would suggest watching your butt. Same as evil people walking around in west styne or Castille. I will act as evil NPC in the desert as well, to help out the evil there. The same as I would to help out the good in West Styne. The only thing is that me as a DM watching all the PCs, they craft all the time( I dont start stuff with crafters they are in the zone), or they are training( I mess with these people all the time, yah something to do) ,or they hang out in west styne ( I dont start any adventures out of west styne, and I dont ever attack west styne. Why are they there? I dont know.), oh and the other 1 percent may be in there house and I really try to leave those people alone.

[kline]

Oh PS use of the lasso in the North Desert is a no no. You as a knight can kill the evil #$#$%& if you want but no lasso.....