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Post by Silentus on Jan 28, 2004 5:07:16 GMT
Ok, in this first topic of discussion, I would like to try to hammer out what we feel the crimes are defined as. I do not expect this topic to take long. As I see it (and what the other threads indicated) we have 2 primary crimes:
Stealing
Homocide
I pose to you the following questions:
1. Should Vigilante justice be considered a crime?
2. Is accidental slaying considered a capital offence? an if so is it akin to murder or considered minor?
3. Are there other crimes that we should be considering (in this still simple model)?
Please keep in mind we are only defining crime here, NOT determination of guilt nor punishment.
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Post by JoScMa on Jan 28, 2004 8:30:49 GMT
1. This is a hard one. Perhaps if the vigilante in question acquires permission from a Knight, then it would be okay. Otherwise, perhaps it should be a crime.
2. Hmm....I think if the victim wants justice serve, the accidental killer should be sentenced to jail as a minor offense. It is not as big as a first degree murder.
3. There's one I can think of at the moment. After what happened between Frost, Sir Damien, Phoenix, and others, perhaps verbal harassment should be a crime. It would certainly help prevent such situations from recurring.
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Tenra
Young One
Posts: 20
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Post by Tenra on Jan 28, 2004 11:56:55 GMT
1) Depends where it happens , if in town then he should be brought in. Alot things can happen, if its agroup of pc's like a mob I would assume the leader or leaders would be punished depending on the numbers of the mob.If it some how served the crown i would imaged it would get dropped to a lesser sentence. SO i guess that a Yes.
2) tricking one .. I would think if it is proven accidental no crime. So no.
3) I think those 2 are the big ones. Far as verbal harrassment no, if its RP it can add to the encounter and if its ooc there is server rules for that.
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Post by Preedy1978 on Jan 28, 2004 15:11:52 GMT
ok...here's my 2 pennies worth:
1)- Yes, unless given permission by a knight to help deal with a particular crime. (or even the king)
2)- Depends how the victim wants to proceed. He/she may realise that it was a genuine mistake, and let the accused off, or press charges. (afetr all, accidental or not, it is still murder...although a lesser sentence should be imposed in my view)
3)- How about: Assault, Disobeying a command of a knight to the king? (Not sure how major they are, just throwing ideas out at you!)
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Post by Phoenix on Jan 28, 2004 18:27:42 GMT
1. Yes, a new crime has been commited, murder, or whatever the vigilant did. But only if it's in city controlled areas. This also shouldn't stop justice from being served to the person who commited the first crime as the vigilant's justice wouldn't be considered as payment for the crime. 2. Accitental... depends on how, but this is tricky. If the victim wants justice I'd have to say justice should be served. Punishment, which I though we were not discussing, should be less than murder. 3. Public distrubance/disturbing the peace. This is what JoScMa's basically referring to, and there is no reason a knight couldn't enforce that now, hint-hint.  There is also a difference between harrasment and taunting for a fight, so try not to kill all character assination RP of people please. Disobeying a knight's orders, under martial law, thats asking for trouble. Under normal laws, if they are speaking as a law figure, you obey or trouble. |
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Valen
Young One
Posts: 32
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Post by Valen on Jan 28, 2004 18:34:37 GMT
I agree with Phoenix
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Post by Silentus on Jan 28, 2004 18:46:52 GMT
BTW, try to only chime in once on a point unless you have something new and valid to say - I dont want these things to run on forever, so we can move to the next topic:) I will update with a post like this daily (or so)
Update:
Crimes:
Theft
Murder
I pose to you the following questions:
1. Should Vigilante justice be considered a crime?
......concensus to date: Yes
2. Is accidental slaying considered a capital offence? an if so is it akin to murder or considered minor?
......concensus to date: No, unless char presses charges, probably a minor offence
3. Evading arrest / Disrespecting authorities?
4. Disturbing the peace / Verbal abuse
5. Are there other crimes that we should be considering (in this still simple model)?
-----My personal take----
1. Vigilantes: Crime equal to action they commited
2. Yes if charges are pressed - minor offence reguardless.
3. Evading/Disrepecting: Yes on evading, disrespecting gets a little too hairy, at least for starters.
4. Disturbing/Verbal abuse: No, I am against both of these, at least for the beginning. I feel it will curb players too much, and it becomes a bad deal to figure out. Alot of that will also depend on what we end up with for the Judgement phase to be discussed after this.
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Post by MysaidesCaldier on Jan 28, 2004 20:09:29 GMT
Okay what can I say lots of opinions? Have to say I can work with anything. ;DJust would appreciate something more then nothing. After reading most posts about the system we all agree it would give us extra spice and intrigue to listen by the fire about. I really cannot comment on the system because personally I think we all are getting a bit too freaked out at the prospect of accountablity for actions in a game. Fact is we want it to be fun but all have different ideas about fun and will probably all not agree what exactly fun is. I have just one suggestion for everyone! Implement something if it does not work let it be changed, and open to the shifting prospects of Fredian politics. Personally I love swimming with sharks always have always will. ::)Feudalism also rules! |
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Post by ride on Jan 28, 2004 21:07:34 GMT
3a) yeah yes on evading, I mean you can't evade for no reason right? 3b) no on disrespecting authority, since uh... without the disrespect there'd be no reason for the authority right? and if the authority cannot take some dissenting words and let them roll off thier (collective) back then they really have no business being the authority. (if you must use real world examples the take for instance all the talk about how we didn't land on the moon, what did our authority do for that one? they ignored it for the most part.) lol now I imagine someone running around saying frost is a demon or something, and instead of just telling everyone that the guy saying that is nucking futs, and leaving it at that, frost would run over there and kick his butt (just using you as an example buddy, you were the first "big wig" I thought of...  ) #4 is kind of hard and I think should fall under #5 for now and well said Mys, I agree that we seem to be getting too freaked over that too.... (as I have tried to point out before) |
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Post by Silentus on Jan 29, 2004 16:40:53 GMT
--- TOPIC CLOSED ---
As stated before, this topic is much easier than the others. Right now I will call it closed in the interest of simplicity. I will not lock it however, just in case someone thinks of something major that really needs addressing. Crimes:
1. Theft
2. Evading Arrest
3. Murder
Other Proposed Crimes for potential addition later (dont bother discussing these further at this time)
4. Unintential Homocide (if charges pressed)
5. Disrespecting authorities
6. Disturbing the peace / Verbal abuse / Inciting riot
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There is also a difference between harrasment and taunting for a fight, so try not to kill all character assination RP of people please. 
)
"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 