Punishment pt3 - Sentancing (topic closed)

[Silentus]

Next I would like to move on to assigning punishments to crimes. Here is the data we have agree upon to date:

The Crimes and punnishment tiers we have agreed upon (by a simple majority):
...1. Evading Arrest...1 tier, same punishment for each repeat offence
...2. Theft...............2 tier, harsher punishment after 2nd offence (and subsequent)
...3. Murder.............2 tier, harsher punishment after 2nd offence (and subsequent)
...4. Serial killers.......5+ murders merits extra special harsh punishment

The Punishments we have agreed upon are (by a 66% or higher majority):
...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
...e. Forfeiture of some gold
...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
...h. Public Apology
...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

I pose to you the following question:
Please vote for your opinions on the sentancing. Select all Punishments you would like to have enforced on the crime. Please follow my 'template' below if possible. We will discuss jail terms and fine specifics afterwards, likely murder jail terms will be more severe than theft.

5. Slavery be offered as an alternative to:
...a. Execution
...b. Prison Stay
...c. None
--- My Personal Take ---
First Tier
1ei
2cei
3bei

Second Tier
1 (does not apply - same as tier 1)
2cehi
3bdhi

Serial Killers
4bdai (or fi)

Slavery
5a

Note that while I like the community service idea, initially I dont think we should use it - it leaves alot of discression up to the knihgts, which may pose stumbling blocks at the beginning.

[Shwabba]

First Tier
1. e,i OR c,i
2. c,e,i OR h,i
3. b,e,h,i OR a,i

Second Tier
1. N/A
2. c,d,i OR a,i
3. b,d,i OR f,i OR a,i

Serial Killers
4. b,d,i OR f,d,i OR a,d,i

Heh, now for the explanations
Every crime will be different, so I think the judging party should have some leeway with how they dish out the punishments. For example, a first time thief who shows no remorse (and obvious contempt for the law) could be fined and imprisoned, while a first time thief who didn't know any better (i.e. a newbie) could be let off with a warning and a public apology. Also, some people just don't want to be taken alive, so I would hate to hear things like "I can't believe you killed him, Sir Knight! He only killed one person! That's not punishable by death!"
As for the second tier, I got quite a bit harsher there. That's mainly for two reasons; a) the offender's already had their warning. They are now *knowingly* committing a crime. b) There are only two tiers, so the second tier has to punish those who have committed the same crime 20 times as well as those who have committed it twice. This means, in my opinion, that the law views anyone being punished more than once for the same type of crime as being a "career criminal." So, for career thieves, it would seem like the logic would be take all the gold they have, they stole it anyway. For career murderers, the money goes to making reparations to the victim's family (or perhaps the cost of ressurrection, etc). This would also have the secondary effect of making sure people weren't carrying around a million gold coins all the time...but that's another rant ;D
Oh and serial killers should lose all their gold whether they choose to wait out their time, go into slavery or be executed...they've got at least FIVE dead people to make up for.

*picks Silentus' pockets*
Just my Four cents
*whistles innocently*
Your Larcenous Neighborhood Shwabbaman

[Silentus]

For the sake of argument and simplicity in statistical analysis, please do not enter more than 1 set of punishments for each crime (in other words, aei is ok, but not aei OR fi). I dont know any way to handle variable rules in something that we are trying to keep reletivly simple. I would say to enter your 'most likely scenario'. The knights will definately have to have some leeway in the system.

This should be considered a standard of appropriate punishement for the knights to follow as closely as the situation allows.

Also, Slavery poses a unique problem with reguards to punishments. You guys think that slavery can be offered as an alternative to execution perhaps? (added to the poll)

** Nods to Vugor who drops a meaty fist on Shwabbaman's head and collects 2 cents back for Silentus **

[Phoenix]

1. E
2. B, E
2. 2nd tier - B, D, E, I
3. B, E, I
3. 2nd tier - A, B, D, E, I
4. A, B, C, D, F, I

*eagerly waits for more change to collect* I already spent that dollar...

[AvengersWraith]

First Tier

1E (Trying to evade arrest should go into post about type of crime committed)

2E I (first time offenders killing chickens should be given a copper skinning knife and told to hunt their own food, plus told safest areas to hunt, Lower Fredian Forest and Fredian Forest West?not sure of names?((totally new players may need some instruction in how to use their map OOC also)). The goal of first offense for minor crimes should be educating petty criminals on how to survive without resorting to crime, whether told nicely or in a totally gruff manner would depend on knights personality (except for OOC help for newbies which should always be nice, and excuse yourself if duty calls ((which should call their attention to RP of a criminal offense or monitoring of possible if a cluster of characters is gathering, allowing them to view some interaction while the knight carries out his primary duty)).

3CD I (I think this should include weapons, but apparently that didn't get voted in, if a player chooses execution over prison then no need to post a known offender)

4CD I (I think this should include weapons, but apparently that didn't get voted in, if a player chooses execution over prison then no need to post a known offender)

5C (Criminals shouldn't be released with ample opportunity to be a repeat offender.)



Second Tier

1A (at the point of capture unless a public execution is warrented (murderer vs. thief)).

2CD I

3CD I (I think this should include weapons, but apparently that didn't get voted in)

4CD I (I think this should include weapons, but apparently that didn't get voted in)

5C (Criminals shouldn't be released with ample opportunity to be a repeat offender.)

[Silentus]

Err... Based on AW's responce, maybe my post was not clear enough (and subsequently I did not understand your responce, so repost it Avengerswraith ) Sorry. Hopefully hthis iwll clarify things a little:

Each Crime is numbered:
...1. Evading Arrest...Same punishment for each repeat offence
...2. Theft...............Harsher punishment after 2nd offence (and subsequent)
...3. Murder.............Harsher punishment after 2nd offence (and subsequent)
...4. Serial killers.......5+ murders merits extra special harsh punishment

Each Punishment is lettered:
...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
...e. Forfeiture of some gold
...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
...h. Public Apology
...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

Extra Question:
5. Slavery can be offered (by Knight) as an alternative to:
...a. Execution
...b. Prison Stay
...c. None

HOW TO VOTE:
1st - Enter the Crime number and punishment letter for each crime for 1st offence.
2nd - Enter the Crime number and punishment letter for subsequent offences.
3rd - Enter the punishment letters for Serial Killers
4th - Enter your answer for question 5

---

Example: (obviously I just need the letters, I only put in the descriptions for clarification in the example)
1ST OFFENCE
1ei (evading arrest gets loss of some gold and public posting)
2c (theft gets public jailing)
3be (gets semiprivate jailing and loss of some gold)

SUBSEQUENT OFFENCES
1 (does not apply - same as tier 1)
2ce (theft gets public jailing and loss of some gold)
3a (2nd offence gets public execution)

SERIAL KILLERS
4fi (5+ kills gets slavery and public posting)

SLAVERY
5a (knight may offer slavery in leiu of execution)

[Spathic]

first tier second tier
1 bce
2 bcehg bcdhg
3 bcde abcdei
4 abcdei

5 don't care

[AvengersWraith]

AvengersWraith said:

First Tier

1E
2E I
3CD I
4CD I
5C

Second Tier

1A
2CD I
3CD I
4CD I
5C

Comments removed

[Zhoreb]

1) b, e
2) b, e tier 2) c, d, e, g, h, i
3) b, e, i tier 2) b, d, e, g, i
4) a, b, i
5) Depends on corruption and alignment. Slavery or community service.

[Shwabba]

*tenderly rubs the growing lump on his head*
Hehehe sorry 'bout that. Didn't mean to complicate things (I'm just naturally good at it )
Anyway, here's my revised vote

First Tier
1. c,e,i
2. c,e,h,i
3. a,b,e,h,i

Second Tier
1. N/A
2. a,c,d,i
3. a,b,d,i

4. a,b,d,f,i

5. a

I took slavery out of my options for second tier murder simply because mass-murdering HAS to have a greater stigma attached to it in some way. Also, I would like to propose that people who are convicted of murder for the 5th time be considered "serial killers" for punishment purposes.

Just my pocket lint,
Your Complicated Yet Penniless Shwabbaman

[Silentus]

I would like to see at least a few more votes. Keep it up guys, we are nearly done with this. Just length of prison stays and Jurisdictions left!

We have 6 votes in, still hoping to hear from:
JoScMa, Preedy19778, Kline, Mysaides Mein, Ride, Al'verith (and anyone else!)

[Hanah]

1) egi
2) tier 1 - bi
2) tier 2 - bcdeghi
3) tier 1 - bcdehi
3) tier 2 - bcdehi
4) acefi
5) ab

Keep up the good work Silentus:-)

Hanah

[ride]

the options you have in your "template" silentus seem fine....

sorry to be like "here you guys figure this out" but I too have a lump on my head from these threads.... sorry...

[JoScMa]

Okay, here's my ballot:

First Tier:
1ei
2cegi
3bei

Second Tier:
1 N/A
2cehi
3bdhi

Serial Killers:
4bdai

Slavery:
5a

[Silentus]

--- TOPIC CLOSED ---
Next we move on to specific gold values and prison stays.

---

[/color]
Here are the Poll results (will only be using the ones that recieved 66% or better maority - included them all in case you were interested):
1. Evading Arrest...Same punishment for each repeat offence
....0%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....22%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....22%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....0%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....100%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....0%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....11%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....0%...h. Public Apology
....56%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

2a. Theft...............1st Offence
....0%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....44%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....56%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....0%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....89%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....0%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....22%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....22%...h. Public Apology
....67%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

2b. Theft...............2nd Offence (and subsequent)
....11%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....33%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....89%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....67%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....100%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....0%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....0%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....22%...h. Public Apology
....89%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

3a. Murder.............1st Offence (and subsequent)
....11%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....89%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....33%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....33%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....100%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....0%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....0%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....22%...h. Public Apology
....89%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

3b. Murder.............2nd Offence (and subsequent)
....33%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....89%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....33%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....100%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....89%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....0%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....11%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....56%...h. Public Apology
....100%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

4. Serial killers.......5th Offence (and subsequent)
....89%...a. Public Execution (full penalties)
....78%...b. Semi-Private Jailing (PCs can come to the cell)
....44%...c. Public Jailing (Cell is in common public area)
....78%...d. Forfeiture of all held gold
....78%...e. Forfeiture of some gold
....33%...f. Slavery (only with player consent)
....0%...g. Community service (perscribed by Justice or Knight, only with player consent)
....0%...h. Public Apology
....100%...i. Public posting of convicted criminals & crimes(forums)

5. Slavery can be offered (by Knight) as an alternative to:
....89%...a. Execution
....33%...b. Prison Stay
....22%...c. None