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Post by Silentus on Feb 26, 2004 20:18:06 GMT
I moved a copy of this thread over here for discussion as the crimes forum is not for disccusions: [quote author=Radog link=board=crimereport&thread=1077697984&start=0#0 date=1077697984]I, Aviar Maximus report the incarceration of one Ventrick. Ventrick was accused and found guilty of being an accomplice to the murder of M'k'n'z'y and Mala Mooncrow by Alexander Xiloscient, who reportedly did not have his mental faculties at the time. Ventrick lured the above said victims into a trap by deception, and the deception occured in Castille City, inside the jurisdiction of the King and the Guard. Jailing occured on 2/25/04 at approx. 2am EST (RL time) Ventrick still owes a fine of 100,000 gold pieces[/quote] hmmm... so basicaly it is a "justice" system for you tall ones... Xilo did the killing here, he knew what he was doing.... but no.... let the little one take the fall.... come and get me. your stupid jails cant hold me and I aint paying nothin! (( so all I gotta say is that my mind was taken over by someone or something and it's all good? that's lame, I'm sorry.... )) (("Ventrick lured the above said victims into a trap by deception, and the deception occured in Castille City, inside the jurisdiction of the King and the Guard." I'm a little confused about this too, did the murder attempt happen in Castille? What's the point in mentioning where part of the plot took place, 'deception' isn't a crime? If the attempt took place there, that is the important part. And yeah 'I lost my mind, please don't jail me'  )) ((Judgement is the Knights perogotive. Were I a Knight, I dont thing I would go for it, but I am not and as such it is not my call. If you have issue with a knights call, I would recommend talking with him or with other knights about it IC, but tread carefully  ) |
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Post by AvengersWraith on Feb 26, 2004 21:22:41 GMT
If a person is possessed I think an exorcism is needed, hope the poor bloke survives, nobody tortures better than a priest trying to save a person's soul from eternal darnation. Think Joan of Arc being burned alive to save her soul according to the church and local authorities.
If the person was under the influence of a domination spell knights should be equipped with magical aids to help them detect such magics.
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Feb 26, 2004 21:35:50 GMT
On the issue of possession....
r1de, I'm with you on this one, it really isn't an excuse under the context of law in Fredian. It's also a very quickly thought-up excuse in a world populated by demons and wizards and such... "weren't me knight, it was them witches what made me done it!" We do have something called 'not guilty by reason of insanity' in the real world though... is this a fair comparision to possession?
On a bit of a tangent, while I do thoroughly enjoy the vast majority of the player-driven stories in Fredian there seems to be a disproportionate number of them involving possession/mind control/whatever to varying degrees of appropriateness. It seems that we end up at the end of the episode unable to react to it... because after all it isn't that person's fault (or that's the feeling I get anyway). In my snarkier moments I sometimes wonder if this is occasionally exploited for less than pure RP motives... While I do think that it can be a wonderfully nifty plot element, I do know that you are all inventive creative people.... maybe we could try something else for a while? Or alternatively, the point Avengerswraith brings up is interesting... could provide for a lot of RP IMO! *cracks her knuckles for a good old-fashioned exorcism*
Obviously everything I've said here is just my opinion. In no way is it my intention to slight, insult or denigrate anyone's story, I'm just noticing a trend. So please, if this has rubbed you the wrong way, take a step back and please don't take offense. Trust me, I don't cut corners when I want to be offensive;-)
Hanah
... now where'd I put that holy water
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Post by ride on Feb 26, 2004 21:49:19 GMT
yes Hanah, there is such a thing in RL, but if you get off cause of "reasonable insanity" you still get sent to the loony bin... not to mention the social culpabilites something like that would bring about for you, like I'm sure you'd never get a job after something like that.... why? you "lost it" once... what's to stop you from doing it again. to translate that into NWN, if your mind is so open to possesion from that big ole mean wizard or demon or whatever, then *your* a danger to the rest of the population and *that* problem needs to be fixed.... and yeah I think this might be for the "wrong" reasons too, which is why I will never try that excuse, unless it was told to me *beforehand* that it was part of the plot (and it's more fun trying to talk my way out of things anyways  ) so, I guess next time someone trys to pull it, can you hold them until a suitable exorcist can be found to expell the evil being from that persons mind, possibly even killing the "possesed" person? ( i hope I don't sound "mean" in my posts here, I just wanted also to bring up a pattern I kind of see developing... ) *edit to add what I just thought* so why is a possesed/crazy/murderer man still a knight of the king? |
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Feb 26, 2004 22:00:29 GMT
Still totally agreeing with you r1de:-) And what's more, if people tend to persist in this 'not guilty by reason of insanity' kick, maybe.... (and I can hear Nat grinding his teeth) a nice cozy little place with padded walls and well-crafted straightjackets out in the Clevian mountains could be arranged? After all, anecdotal evidence implied that the introduction of the new jail reduced crime... maybe a nuthouse will reduce pleas of insanity;-) (Hmmm.... I'm only partially kidding here.)
While we're talking about the use of insanity/possession/mind control in plots and stories, I have to ask why characters tend to so quickly forget about those who were once possessed and revert to trusting them again. Now I confess Hanah's probably a poor example of this as she is always eager to trust someone again (with one notable exception!), but more for the people who play more suspicious-minded folk, I'm curious as to their perspectives on this. How do your characters feel about trusting someone who credits their ill actions to a demon? (Now again, I'd best clarify... I am *so* not criticising anyone's RP choices. I'm just trying to open up some debate here.)
Hanah
.... on preview: ooh, touché there!
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 26, 2004 22:02:28 GMT
Priest? No, no... A Wizard is the master of the mind. Think dominate person/monster, charm person/monster, cloud of bewilderment, confusion, fear, scare and a few others I can't think of right now. Hmm, perhaps a joint priest / wizard exorcism would be better.
And I would be happy to offer my services for this task. ^.^
As far as not having your faculties, let me spin this around. Is this a standard? Would Aviar apply this to everyone? How about Phoenix? You gonna let me get away with murder by saying "sorry I wasnt in control of my actions?" I'll just go ahead and fill in a NO here...
Of course there is always the RP of a bad knight. I just don't think such a knight would report their own side-stepping of the law to a public forum (which is what the CJ forums is, IC postings) for obvious reasons.
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Post by Silentus on Feb 26, 2004 22:18:32 GMT
This isnt my normal way, but Im going a bit off topic (as we all agree that the knights shouldnt take that as an excuse - but that its their choice for now).
There is alot of possesion on the server. I understand it, it is away for you to pay your fav character in a new way. Why instead do we not see a more likely scenario of a dominated character at least. Many mid level wizards would have little difficulty dominating a young one with puppeteer-like skill. Only difference here is that if the domineered gets off, the domineer is going to serve the time. No unaccountable 'higher power'
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Post by ride on Feb 26, 2004 22:18:41 GMT
I know hanah, please do not think I was trying to "one up" you or something  and I too do not want to degrade anyones stories that they come up with, it's all fun. it's just an easy way out that everyone seems to be taking, and all it does is show a lack of creativity.... V will never again trust, or listen to Xilo, V knows what went on... In my head (for Ventrick at least) he is a thief and a priest in a dark cult, but that doesn't mean he thinks that what he does will be accepted by others, he knows he's "against" the mainstream system and fully expects to be caught sometimes... (plus jail for the evil types should be more like a club house than something to be avoided.... think making connections in there... ) if he gets away with something, he will probably get caught for it later cause he will brag about it to his freinds, in fact he was bragging last night that the jail can no longer hold him and that he owed something like 100K to *someone*, but he had no intention of paying it. *added* true silentus..... I agree 1000000% which is pretty much the point of all this ranting... |
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Feb 26, 2004 22:28:10 GMT
(I wasn't miffed r1de honest, just really thrilled to find I'm not the only one who thinks this way! Woo hoo!)
I'm kind of mentally wandering a bit, but a 'Nurse Ratched' style character could be pretty darned interesting... would be really hard to play properly but definitely entertaining. You want to talk about insanity and domination... there's your gal;-)
One thing I really love in a story or plotline is continuity and *consequences*. From my point of view both of these things tend to get pushed to the side in some of the possession-style stories. This hearkens to Silentus' comment about perhaps the puppet-master being responsible criminally for what the puppet has done (after all, we tend to quickly forget who was behind these things as quickly as we forget who the victim was). And I do like that idea, it borders on Nat's slave system, perhaps the two ideas could be incorporated?
I'm really looking forward to some resentment and maybe even vengeance against those who choose to monkey with other's minds... I think that some bitter feelings, while unpleasant IC could be extremely entertaining for us OOC.
Stale disclaimer: still my opinion and nothing more...
Hanah
... for those who don't recognise Nurse Ratched, watch "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and marvel
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Post by Preedy1978 on Feb 26, 2004 22:57:15 GMT
Yeah..there has been a lot of this flying around at the moment...an ok, maybe I have made Karl a bit gulible into actually 'believeing' most of it. I have also been on the receiving end of some of these plots...:-( (not toally by choice, but i did the best i could) and they CAN be fun to play...but what of the situation afterwards, when everything has 'settled down'. Brownie points to Mitza here: As Mala she has played someone who doesnt seem to believe all of this 'mind control' stuff, and is totally against any such excuses, hence she now 'hates' the people who have been involved in such circumstances. Kudos to you girl...it hasnt been easy, but your doing good on that front. (Hence her and Karl having a massive argument over it) I think maybe we should all lay off the mind control plots for a little while, and lets all try something new. There's endless possibilities out there...so lets use our imagination! |
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Mar 3, 2004 19:24:09 GMT
To Hanah, mind if I steal your disclaimer? My complaint box fills up too fast for words without it... To preedy, thanks, Mala is on a happy little road to madness with all of this and massive argument is a bit kind in the descriptive category The insanity pleas can continue and the Knights and King can feel free to continue buying into it if they wish to...the people who won't will simply be patient and wait until there is no Knight around or it is not their jurisdiction and then solve the problem. My OOC views are very close to Mala's IC views with the exception that I rarely feel that actually killing someone is justified (added exception I was in the cheering crowd at Stark when we finally said finding the rest of the bodies was less important than ending Bundy's existence). I know that seems harsh, but I am NOT a member of the Age of Apology. Things are not fine because you said you were sorry. Apologies are nice, but actions speak louder than words is as true in game as in life. Dissect the following common apology "I am sorry you feel that way." It really means, "I am sorry that you are angry with me and that I got caught and that youa re now making my life less convenient." There is no real need for an OOC discussion of this IMO beyond recognize that while Mala and Mitz share some views, Mitz doesn't hate anyone, and isn't going to hold it agaisnt anyone IRL. I enjoy the game,and I hope everyone else does as well! *cracks her knuckles and returns to server side plotting* "You know how I love to watch you work...I have my wedding to plan, my wife to murder, and Gilder to frame for it, I'm swamped!" |
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Post by Spathic on Mar 3, 2004 20:02:31 GMT
off topic...
Mitz you're from florida? whereabouts?
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"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 
and I too do not want to degrade anyones stories that they come up with, it's all fun. it's just an easy way out that everyone seems to be taking, and all it does is show a lack of creativity....
