|
|
Post by Silentus on Mar 2, 2004 19:39:39 GMT
Apparently if we want consistancy of punishment in minor and accidental crimes, we should probably try to administer some guidelines. Note, these are being enforced regaurdless of what we wish as long as the Knights report to King Wend - so even if you are against the concept of the crime, still vote on punishment please.
These will be considered additional minor Crimes (as they are being enforced anyway):
......1. Disrepecting Autority..Verbal abuse of a Knight or authority figure
......2. Insubordination..........Failure to follow a Knights order
......3. Disturbing the peace...Public physical aggresion
......4. Negligent Misconduct...Public physical aggresion resulting in harming (not death) of passersby
......5. Manslaughter.............Public physical aggression resulting in death of passersby
Possible punishments assessed for each crime: choose all that apply
......N. I DO NOT FEEL THIS SHOULD BE A CRIME (please vote on punishment as well)
......Y. I DO FEEL THIS SHOULD BE A CRIME (please vote on punishment as well)
......a. Verbal Warning before harsher punishment
......b. Forfeiture of 100 gold
......c. Forfeiture of 500 gold
......d. Forfeiture of 1000 gold
......e. Forfeiture of 5000 gold
......f. Forfeiture of 10000 gold
......g. Forfeiture of 50000 gold
......h. 5 Min Jailing
......i. 10 Min Jailing
Repeat offences:
As all these crimes are reletivly minor or accidental, I do not feel there is a point in putting in 2nd offence options
I pose to you the following question:
What punishments should be used for crimes 1 - 5 above? (select all that apply)[/b][/color]
--- My Personal Take (and template for you all to follow) ---
1. Y ah (only because a fine will only escalate the issue)
2. Y ah (again, the issue escalates as long as the Knight and offender are speaking)
3. Y ae (on all parties unless in self defence - if continues this turns into insubordination jailing)
4. Y eh (for each hurt character/npc)
5. Y fi (for each killed character/npc)
|
|
|
|
Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 2, 2004 20:21:00 GMT
1 Y - d, e, f, g, h (progressive with each warning until jailed)
2 Y - b, c, d, e, f, g, h (progressive, some people are stubborn)
3 Y - g (hopefully Nat will add scripting to make failure to pay a fine or ability to pay the fine stick the person in jail until someone pays his fine or his fine is reduced by "X" amount of gold per minute in jail (for those who wish to get out of fines by storing it all in the bank or giving it to someone to hold or are actually poor))
4 Y - e, f or g depending on how much damage is done
5 Y, N - g & h (I'm one of those people who feel that people who drink and drive should be charged with attempted murder with as much public awareness there is about the danger, compare this to the wizard or sorcerer who unleashes a horrid wilting spell during single combat around civilians; but no recourse if it happens during the course of an attack on the town by a warped fighter raiding party, for example)
RECAP without comments
1 Y - d,e,f,g,h
2 Y - b,c,d,e,f,g,h
3 Y - g
4 Y - e,f, or g
5 Y,N - g & h
|
|
Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
|
Post by Hanah on Mar 2, 2004 20:28:29 GMT
1 - Y ah 2 - Y adh 3 - Y adh 4 - Y fh 5 - Y fi Hopefully this lightens the load on our knights.... Hanah ... why is art imitating my life? |
|
|
|
Post by Silentus on Mar 2, 2004 21:24:09 GMT
1 Y - d,e,f,g,h 2 Y - b,c,d,e,f,g,h 3 Y - g 4 Y - e,f, or g 5 Y,N - g & h Did you meanhtis Avengers wraith? You have 3 with a harsher punishment than 4. 3 is basically having a fight in town (just 2 people involved) and 4 is basically having that same fight while harming innocents. |
|
sniven
Young One
Assassins do it from behind :)
Posts: 23
|
Post by sniven on Mar 2, 2004 21:33:49 GMT
Hi, heh just my two cents. Why? A knight back in the day was a symbol of the kings law. His enforcer the knight spoke for the king and was thus his representative so laws were well, kings word was law disrepect his knights like disrespecting the king. etc...
I vote no to all of them there doesnt need to be a list of laws IMO. A knight knows right from wrong, well should. If the king has chosen to be represented by the knights they should be free to make fredian peaceful.
NO RED TAPE PLEASE LAWS ARE TOO EASILY BLACK AND WHITE AND ABUSED BY CIRCUMSTANCE .
I do understand what your attempting to do but we have major stuff covered. Let the minor stuff be taken care of.
Sniven
|
|
|
|
Post by ride on Mar 2, 2004 22:22:57 GMT
Hi, heh just my two cents. Why? A knight back in the day was a symbol of the kings law. His enforcer the knight spoke for the king and was thus his representative so laws were well, kings word was law disrepect his knights like disrespecting the king. etc... I vote no to all of them there doesnt need to be a list of laws IMO. A knight knows right from wrong, well should. If the king has chosen to be represented by the knights they should be free to make fredian peaceful. NO RED TAPE PLEASE LAWS ARE TOO EASILY BLACK AND WHITE AND ABUSED BY CIRCUMSTANCE . I do understand what your attempting to do but we have major stuff covered. Let the minor stuff be taken care of. Sniven I agree as much as there are atoms in the universe, but is seems most are not happy allowing it to be such, and want black and white rules that are to be followed to the letter.... uh... yeah right... it will never happen, unless of course it all becomes a scripted routine on the server, carried out by Knight NPC's.... since um... the characters involved are played by humans...  we cannot even follow and/or enforce our own black and white laws in RL society... I mean there is a whole profession dedicated to finding the grey areas in those black and white laws.... they call em lawyers... I think it is/was fine as it stood before this particular discussion started. I have enjoyed my run-in's with the knights and my time in the jail ( what time? lol ) so I will abstain from voting so as not to throw off the averages. *Ventrick's legal services are now available....* "If I can't get you out of it, I will break you out myself" tm (C)2004 VLS inc lmao!!  |
|
Severian
Young One
Sacrafice for Victory
Posts: 42
|
Post by Severian on Mar 2, 2004 22:47:53 GMT
1. Y a,c
2. Y a,d,h
3. Y a,d
4. Y a,h
5. Y g,i
I made these choice, knowing what I see almost everyday in west styne and other places here in Fredian
|
|
|
|
Post by Spathic on Mar 2, 2004 23:27:29 GMT
1 - Y ah
2 - Y adh
3 - Y adh
4 - Y fh
5 - Y fi
looks pretty good to me...
|
|
|
|
Post by kline on Mar 2, 2004 23:57:12 GMT
1.Y but should a high level adventure that has saved the town on many occations be treated like a commoner and bossed around just because the knight can. I believe epic level adventurers should be treated a little different. So would I say Y to this for someone that is high levels no.
2.Y again the same thing here as well. Y if you are just some commoner or new to the island. But if the knight is speaking to a person that is of the same season and or an epic character there should be a mutual understanding that both are needed in the town. Neither should be disrespected. If a Knight get in an aguement with anouther high seasoned character should the knight just be able to throw you in jail no.
3.Y Ok so what do you call disturbing the piece. Is it just whatever the Knight conserders wrong then no here to.
4.Y this one is kind of like if you harm someone and didnt mean to. I believe if the person that was harmed wants to press charges fine but if the person that harmed the other payed the guy off or the other person just really doesnt want to press charges on this person than NO here too.
5.Y The same as I answed question 4 though.
Tring to enforce these kinds of laws is just going to start allot of trouble. If my weapon master goes into town one more town any is bossed around like he is some puck kid again. I believe I have every right IC to smash that guards face in. I am 40th season and get treated like a puck kid by one of the gaurds he pushes me and pushes me to try to start something and when I finally do then he wants to take me to jail. Hmmm. Dwarfs do not like being treated poorly and bossed around just for them sake of the gaurds enjoyment.
PS I never agreeded to a law of putting up your weapons in town. If front of the King I understand, but just putting them up for the sake of the Knights enjoyment of seeing how he can boss me around no way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Radog on Mar 3, 2004 1:29:49 GMT
to Kline's post: Aviar is going to have a IC discussion with the King about the whole weapon drawn in town and see where he stands on it. Originally it was just a RP tool, to bring the Knights alive more and make the town feel like a Knight was on duty, but the instigators have been using it as a tool to cause trouble and get something started, so it is under review IC. As far as your level 40 weapon master being treated less than nicely, don't forget that your character was hired to attack Aviar for gold, in his own words. Like Hanah said, persistence in the plot. You think you will attack someone for pay and they are going to forget about it? Nope, not Aviar. But your character has not or will not be jailed for personal reasons, and that goes for the rest of the group, they know who I am talking about. And your character himself said he was bored before he started buffing up and then pulled out his axe, so he was looking for trouble at that point, so he gets what he gets as far as that issue  |
|
|
|
Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 3, 2004 4:13:21 GMT
Disturbing the peace is much easier to define then negligent misconduct, that is why negligent misconduct was given alternatives.
Example: Fal Druar used to smack (attack, without intent to kill) characters who would kill the chickens and refuse to replace the meat by donating some to the soup kitchen. In one case, I was dead before the person knew I had attacked him (fighters and those massive criticals or is it Fal and his chicken obsession), either way, under the current system Fal would be guilty of a crime but the person who killed him shouldn't, if the knight cannot ascertain what exactly happened, and a third party was killed on accident for whatever reason, negligent misconduct could give the knight the opportunity to be lenient if in doubt.
Modification: I added a suggestion about expunging convictions and taking issues up in court after the fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by Preedy1978 on Mar 3, 2004 10:27:25 GMT
Yes to all, with the following:
1)- a,h
2)- a,h
3)- a,e,h
4)- e & h
5)- f & i
|
|
|
|
Post by Zhoreb on Mar 3, 2004 10:30:10 GMT
1, 2, 3) Y; a, d, e, f, g, (h, i)
4) Y; e, f, g, h, i
5) Y; g and h, i
If all jailtime counts toward execution, remove the (h, i) from my vote on 1, 2 and 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by Makzimia on Mar 3, 2004 14:33:51 GMT
This particular discussion has gone silly, I am sorry but I am nixing this, you are making it WAY TO COMPLEX!!!. Simple I am telling you if a knight gets peaved at a player behaviour to him or to others in his sight he has the right to give them time in jail. End of discussion. Sorry folks but you are going to give lawyers work.
Makz.
|
|
we cannot even follow and/or enforce our own black and white laws in RL society... I mean there is a whole profession dedicated to finding the grey areas in those black and white laws.... they call em lawyers... 
"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 
