POLL - Prison Time for Unpaid Fines

[Silentus]

There is a need to figure out what to do about people who cannot afford or refuse to pay fines. Pleae note that there some technical aspects here that may not be possible, but something likely can work if Addicted2rpg is willing. This system was mentioned in converstations and seems to be a decent idea. It also has the realistic side effect of those who have less money (lower social standing) get harsher treatment and are more likely to be executed over fewer issues.

Please remeber the following repercusisons while voting:
All jail time pushes you towards execution (at 120 min and every 60 thereafter) - try not to get too aggressive without good reason!
Thieves have to return the stolen item or pay replacement value. I dont recall how much Armor of the Creator sells for, but that could push someone towards an execution fast (althogh this does up the ante on Grand Theft

I pose to you the following questions:
1. Currently subsequent theft offences carry an "all held gold" penalty. What should the minimal value be? (first offence is 5000)?

2. Currently subsequent murder offences carry an "all held gold" penalty. What should the minimal value be? (first offence is 100000)?

3. How much jail time should be added if a fine cannot/will not be paid?
[/color]......a. None, I dont like this idea
......b. 5 min flat fee reguardless of how much money is owed
......c. 10 min flat fee reruardless of how much money is owed
......d. 20 min flat fee reguardless of how much money is owed
......e. 1 min / 50000gp owed ( 2 min per 100000)
......f. 1 min / 20000gp owed ( 5 min per 100000)
......g. 1 min / 10000gp owed (10 min per 100000)
......h. 1 min / 5000gp owed (20 min per 100000)
......i. 1 min / 2000gp owed (50 min per 100000)

4. Should the lasso be setup to automatically take the fine?
......a. Yes
......b. No
......c. If this fine/time system is adopted - no (so that a person could opt to serve time instead of paying the fine), otherwise yes

--- My Personal Take (and template for you all to follow) ---

1. 5000 (for simplicity via consistancy)
2. 100000 (for simplicity via consistancy)
3. g
4. c

[Spathic]

5000
100000
f
b

[Severian]

1. I agree 5k is good
2. 100k per player or NPC killed
3. c
4. c (I think that if someone cannot afford to pay the fine then they should have the option of sevrving the time instead)

[AvengersWraith]

1 - 5,000 (but all fines under 10,000 GP would incur 1 minute if unwilling or unable to pay)
2 - 100,000
3 - G
4 - C

Addicted/Nat, please be thinking about an NPC jailor who can negotiate immediate release of prisoners who pay their fines and stops the logging of minutes for non-failure to pay fines. I think an NPC jailor would be nice even if no changes are made to the jail system, and if their is supposed to be an NPC jailor already, he wasn't there when Eriden went to jail for attacking potential vampires infiltrating West Styne.

[Zhoreb]

1) 5000
2) 100000
3) f
4) c

[Preedy1978]

1)- 5K
2)- 100K
3)- F
4)- C

[MitzaVolchenko]

1) 5k
2) 100k
3) F
4) C

[Silentus]

Makzimia said:

This particular discussion has gone silly, I am sorry but I am nixing this, you are making it WAY TO COMPLEX!!!. Simple I am telling you if a knight gets peaved at a player behaviour to him or to others in his sight he has the right to give them time in jail. End of discussion. Sorry folks but you are going to give lawyers work.

Makz.

Does that apply to this topic then too Makz?

[Makzimia]

Anything that needs to be TWEAKED is fine, I just really do not want to see players bogged down with pages of information, it a: removes ANY fun, and b: drives some people immediately off.

Makz.

[AvengersWraith]

Let's keep it simple;

Character's without gold for a fine will serve additional time for their crime, otherwise it is automatically removed from inventory. Read CJ thread for the time ratio if you really care, otherwise simply expect additional jail time if you cannot pay your fine.

It would probably be a lot easier for Nat to script an either/or option.

[addicted2rpg]

Please have Silentus mail me with any script changes and updates needed.

oh yeah... forgot the gold thing.
Gotta do that =-)

[Silentus]

Been busy - hope to deal with this thread tomorrow - havnt forgotten it...

[Silentus]

--- POLL RESULTS---

[/size][/color]

I pose to you the following questions:
1. Currently subsequent theft offences carry an "all held gold" penalty. What should the minimal value be? (first offence is 5000)?
[/color]100%......5000 [/b](same as normal theft punishment)

2. Currently subsequent murder offences carry an "all held gold" penalty. What should the minimal value be? (first offence is 100000)?
100%......100000 [/b](same as normal murder punishment)

3. How much jail time should be added if a fine cannot/will not be paid?
..........a. None, I dont like this idea
..........b. 5 min flat fee reguardless of how much money is owed
14%.....c. 10 min flat fee reruardless of how much money is owed
..........d. 20 min flat fee reguardless of how much money is owed
..........e. 1 min / 50000gp owed ( 2 min per 100000)
57%...f. 1 min / 20000gp owed ( 5 min per 100000)
29%.....g. 1 min / 10000gp owed (10 min per 100000)
...........h. 1 min / 5000gp owed (20 min per 100000)
...........i. 1 min / 2000gp owed (50 min per 100000)

4. Should the lasso be setup to automatically take the fine?
14%......a. Yes
14%......b. No
71%....c. If this fine/time system is adopted - no (so that a person could opt to serve time instead of paying the fine), otherwise yes
--------------
I guess at this point it is up to Makz and Addicted. I guess what we should say is that popular opinion says the following:

1. The lasso should automatically take the fine if possible. This may not be feasible or convenient from a scripting OR useage standpoint - I encourage Addicted to use his discression here. Having never used the lasso, I have no real concept on what it looks like from the knights pov.

2. The minimum 'all held gold' policies imply all held gold with a mimimum equal to the default sentance for lesser versions of the crime (IE 5000 for theft, 100000 for murder)

3. If a fine cannot or will not be paid, the amount not paid will be made up for by jail time at a rate of 1 min per 20000 owed (rounded to nearest 5 minutes).

I know this probably seems like rule lawyering to some but there kind of is a need as right now there is NO reason to pay fines for the beligerant. As always these would be considered guidelines for the knights who may excercise discressionary modifications as they see fit.

This stuff work for you Makz? Addicted?

[AvengersWraith]

Knight's, if someone has a 5000 GP fine and no gold, only put them in for a minute, 5 minutes is like saying you are dirt for not carrying at least 5000 in gold, IMO. Unless the lasso can keep track of fines owed, and record fines paid to knights and a running total is kept until they reach 50,000 GP in fines, then imprison them and subtract debt owed.

[Silentus]

AvenegersWraith - Im not sure if they have 1 minute increments available right now (or if it is worth it to recode)

Im locking this topic however until Makz and Addeicted sign off on it (or not)...