Timestop

[sniven]

Ok i witnessed and casting of timestop followed by the typing *ties you up* and the person being captured rpd he was caught. I honestly can tell you i disagreed with it but would like other opinions.
So fire away folks is it a valid way to go.



Sniven

[Silentus]

Sounds legit to me. I mean, I would allow it in a PnP game so I cant fault it here. There would, of course, have to be some other checks for the captive, such as a potential strength check, maybe a relfexx check in an attempt to get out of the bonds.

Normally in a PnP game there would be other modifiers, like rope use proficencies and such that just do not exist here, so it does have some problems - but all and all, if I were the victim, I would accept my fate.

[Adyanna79]

I think it is a good idea but it should not be abused... I would hate someone to do it all the time...

And I agree that A check should be aloud... and also a friends should be able to un ties you...

[Percival]

First of all did they pulls a magical rope out of thin air? If not where did they get the rope?

Ok, so maybe they have a bundle of hemp or silk from the bowery shop. Let go with that scenario, is there enough time in time stop to tie someone up completely, especially if time stop was cast from a distance as is almost always the case. Tying someone up completely with just rope is a lengthy process. Time stop would surely run out before that could take place.

General rule of thumb, if it cant be done in the game it cant be done. I remember when Inquisitor said "Get the Demon Chains" to tie me up. Although I went along, it immediately made me think "ok this one hasn't got a clue"

To many people think RP involves them dictating someone elses actions "You have a feeling that such as such happens" is NOT valid RP. No one except a DM has the right to tell a character what has happened. All they can say is "I attempt to tie you up" and at that point it is up to the character getting tied up whether they want to play along. And with STR 38 like I have Demon Chains (the strongest known binding force) are DC 50 vs STR + d20 every turn. I think your up a creek if you think your going to hold me more then a turn or two because you thought you tied me up.

Hint... If you are dictating the actions of someone else, you are no longer roll playing, you are on an ego trip.

One thing I miss in NwN is Subdue. Subdue for you non PnP's is beating someone down to 1 HP. A subdued character can not attack any more unless the subduing character attacks them first. Think Golem in Lord of the Rings for RP. One catch, subdue must be declared before you start the attack, not after.

Just a thought.

[Adyanna79]

I disagree with you Percival... Sometimes people need a litle help in roleplay... and in the case of Achelles your char was pretty close to death and he had all the time in the world... And he said "i ties you up" and I am pretty sure that if you rolled a str check with a DC 50 and had a succes(wish you didn't do) he would have played along with it...

And also you were a prisoner and Achelles char as more str than you...

In a pnp session you would have made oppose str checks and he would have had the option to use the chains to try to attach you...

It made for some good rp I think... much better than the I cast timestop and type...

Also Achelles asked me to go get chains... And regarding our history it was credible...

[AvengersWraith]

I would say that hands or feet can be tied in 9 seconds, or 1 hand to 1 foot keeping the tied person prone. I would only expect 4 types of characters to be carrying shackles; knights/paladins/gaurds for arresting criminals, slave owners for the prideful slave to be knocked down a notch, slavers and those planning on kidnapping someone.

I would highly recommend that tieing up a human not stop after 9 seconds, bulls in rodeos, humans or humanoids are much more dextrous and could untie a hastily made knot.

I would want a STR check for everyone but rogue with open locks who can choose a DEX check instead (yes, I believe rogues should be allowed special check because a well trained rogue would anticipate needing to get out of tight situations), but only 1 check per minute.

Maybe someone in the module building team can script some shackles, with a slave system, shackles could be made by blacksmiths eventually if Makz says yes and scripting it in isn't to hard (a thought for a future project, especially if criminals get the option of working off their restitution fee instead of rotting in jail).

[Shwabba]

Well, I voted that it would work on this one, mainly because I likes me that RP'in stuff Whether or not timestop gives exactly enough time to do it in, or exactly how long it would take for a hasted-boyscout-Rope-Proficiency(x50)-having quickling to tie me up, is a little irrelevant, in my opinion. Whether me getting captured by the person in question makes a better story...well now, that's an ogre of a different stench. The rules are only there to act as guidelines to help players of different ideals have a common direction in which to act out there storylines. If a rule gets a little bent, or maybe *gasp* ignored, as long as it's for the good of the story and everyone agrees on it, then that's fine. The game was created with precisely that in mind. That's why "all rules are optional" has appeared in every D&D book since it was only a pamphlet distributed out of Gygax's basement. As long as the players involved agree to it, anything goes. Which brings up another point; no one can force anyone to do anything. If you emote *ties you up* then you have just made a giant assumption that: a) the other character will let you tie them up. b) the other player wants you to tie up their character. c) you have the ability to tie up the other character and they do not have the ability to stop you. This sort of thing is a bit of a "faux pas" or social no-no, but it isn't the end of the world. It's about the equivalent of reaching across someone's plate to get the salt, or not saying "Gezundheit" or "bless you" when someone sneezes. In other words, while mildly annoying, it doesn't really hurt anyone and it just makes you look like a jerk. You can say "I tie you up," all you'd like, but they can say "I break free," or "no you don't," or if they feel like playing the game your way they could even be so ridiculous as to emote *the ropes turn into butterflies and flutter away*. It's all a matter of consent. So, the next time you think about "enforcing" your RP on someone else, just remember, if they're nice they could just say "I don't feel like RP'ing with you," and get up and walk away.

Shwabbarificly Yours,
Me

[taylor]

i have voted yes aswell simply because it is a cunning way of tying someone up

using timestop as mages is just like using hide as shadow dancers

i mean that would be a good way to tie someone up

*leaps out of shadows with rope attempting to tie up xxxx* then also i think that a DC should be set for trying to tie someone up, a DM should set the DC and decide what modifiers to use such as use magic device ( i love rogues)

that would be unfair on other classes thats why i think a neutral person should decide on it, for against it either a dexterity or strength roll

any thoughts on this?

if you dont understand what i mean, dont worry i dont understand it so much myself ;D

[ride]

I voted yes, I think that would work... but I also think we would at least need a "rope item" in the person doing the tyings inventory, and also the save checks, but it *was* an ingenious way to solve that one problem....

I also agree with Shwabba about the stories....


but I ask this (hypothetically, of course ):
what if I had counterspelled that timestop?

(not that I know an answer... )

**ok wait I'm still up so I will add**
what if (for the non spellcasting classes) there was a timestop wand or something they had to carry around with them if they were called to be a knight.... only usable by the ones marked as knights... they would not even have to actually be able to use it, but have to at least carry it (so they can pretend they use it, come on this *is* all virtual... if they don't "call it", well then you get like a +10 to escape it or something) I don't know it's late... g'night

[Cella]

As the person who performed the action, It was more out of deperation than anything else. There positioning was close so timescales had little to do with it.

I finally agreed to the escape because the said bound person suddenly located a knife and severed ties and left. Everyone agreed he had completed this action so off he went. I thought this was a fortunate situation too and reflected the fact that there is always some remarkable counteraction to all actions. I even congratulated the person I bound for accepting the RP at which point he said thanks, severed and ran.

So, Who cares really......

[Phoenix]

Well I voted yes, but I would also like to have some base rules for escape. I think it's perfectly reasonable to shackle someone in 9 seconds, hands and feet. Even better, actual items, similar to the wand being worked on for the CJ system. Maybe ropes and chains with different DCs to escape. Just a thought.

[Preedy1978]

Yeah.....i actually thought it was an ingenious way of actually catching a known 'perp' IC. Looking at the situation though, i can see people abusing the situation to a degree, so i have voted against the use of time stop in this way...besides....10 seconds to SECURELY tie someone up? I dont think so. As a one off i thought it was a clever piece of rp, but i can see ppl trying this all the time, thus not really making it very much fun. perhaps a dc check for the caster to perform the said action is an idea? (to see if they manage to tie the victim up in time)

[Shwabba]

Something that occurred to me, for the shackles idea, couldn't we the slave collar be used, but with a shackles graphic? That way it only works on people who have agreed to it and it would follow the same basic principles of the collar.... just a thought

[Silentus]

I'm not a scripter, and have no say whatsoever what happens here (any more than any other user), but the thought of bothering the few creators we have with adding alot of cutom items and scripting is something I generally try to avoid. This whole thing to mee seems as simple as 'do you want to RP or not?' If you do, you can probably work it out - if not, thats perfectly fine too. Personally, creating something special for it seems like a combersome solution for to small of a reason (course thats coming from the guy trying to moderate the CJ system discussion - so maybe you should just ignore me anyway

[Adyanna79]

Idon't know about that silentus... It has been one of my observation that when something is not scripted and is "choose to rp or not" that's where the problem start...

And where arguments arise...

That has been one of my main concern about the CJ...

on this note Shwabba...
I am interested to know what is in it for the poor player who let's himself be enslaved or tied up... I mean I clearly see what is in it for the guy tiying you up or puts a collar on you... But I mean the only reason why a sytem like this would be balance is if there is a way out for them... An escape scernario or even a redeem scenario...And would you have the tied up pc follow you around... or paralyze...

And let's face it... those chains wouldn't keep many of the great adventurer tied up for long...