Couldnt Post on my thread on IGMS. . .

[Adyanna79]

That form of dueling was started by a bunch of players(that were bored of the same old fight... thay also had a must be cold rule that could be added where spell caster had to come into the fight un buff and do it in the fight...

(Now that was duelling...) But My point is that we can just make rules in fights... Especially if we are dueling in the arena as some kind of sport against being bored...

[Preedy1978]

I dont see what the problem is with IGMS...there is a defence against it....so its up to people to find it! sheesh...

[FaithIsTruth]

This from Ride:shaddup and just play the game.... if your a mage, learn how to use counter

Makz, would you like to tell them the trouble I got in with counter? I think, Ride that I know how to use counter better than the majority of people on NWN, I have even discovered a counterspell bug that got so HUGE that bio actually fixed it. . . imagine that, bio fixed something. . . But I DO know how to use counter, and do use it in mage duels. In old NWN maximized and empowered spells could not be countered however, I think somebody told me this was not true any more, but if they STILL cant, i think somebody OTHER than me ought to learn how to use and about counter

Thanks for the props Shwabba. . . once again my main issue here was MAGE vs MAGE dueling, if neither mages use IGMS or forceful hand, finger of death, horrid, and possibly the diversity of elemental magics I suggested (as alternatate tactics, not noticed by Phoenix) would go into better effect. Although once again the high resistances would be mentioned I suppose and spell resist would come into focus. . . spell resist can be lowered by using mordakein's or greater breach. A combination that I havent senn in a LONG time was used by Kenji' the other day to lower saves, mind fog and then dominate monster. How's that for other tactics? Mantle then dispel, then mord's lower spell resitance, hit em up with some horrids, dispel when needed, get still spell to get more slots of a specific spell, cause it causes the spell to go up one level, if you're using firebrand(which is supposed to have a reflex save but doesnt) and run out at level (5?) and dont use any level 6 spells, then start casting stilled or silenced firebrand, works very nicely and that's how PvP mages get more spell slots alot of the time.

And another really cheap thing about IGMS just while I'm here: There is no spell resistance save per magic missile, but it goes RIGHT THROUGH spell mantle, each missile counting as a level 1 spell, so it still will do damage to somebody with mantle on. . . a good reason for a sr save vs every missile.


((And I also just noticed why I couldnt post last night, the topic was locked, sorry about that for posting another, it was late ))

[Phoenix]

I was't aware you were talking mage vs. mage, 'mage battle' doesn't really imply that to me... But does it really matter who your attacking? If the spell works, why use something different? Why would any character choose a less effective spell? Are you trying to live or be fair when fighting for your life? Even a Paladin carries his best weapon available at their sides.

I believe counter spell does work, and SR calculation was change from every missle to a single SR save by bioware, for a good reason that escapes me now (other than the fact that SR is per spell anyways). So SR does work just fine against IGMS, so does counterspell. I'm not sure about spell mantle, though if it works like SR it should only reduce the mantle count by the spell level, that may be bugged.

So even if you do just want to look at mage vs mage there are defenses to IGMS. Sure there are more options when fighting another mage, IE they have less HPs, so other tactics are viable. However, few people can survive a time stop-whatever damaging spellX2, rinse and repeat. My wizard has over 240 HPs, so a single maximized IGMS isn't going to drop him. So it's not a one spell kill even against mages...

[AvengersWraith]

I stopped reading about 6 posts ago except for Faith's last post, the reason, most participants in this discussion claimed "whining", I did not see any whinning in Faith's post (a little generalization, but not whining), I saw someone saying that using one particular tactic was lame in their opinion.

Many posts discussed diversifying attack stratagies, but more implied "whinning" than discussing pro's and con's.

My evil character in his 10th season was just attacked and killed by someone using this very attack pattern, Timestop followed by IGMS. He ressed me and discussion went on and I eventually asked if he only attacked people considerably less experienced, at which point he left. That is an effective combination in many situations if you timestop effectively.

Back to the point I am trying to make, he/she didn't appear to be whining about it being to powerful, just boring.

[Phoenix]

Were you reading the other thread? It started with this...

"These, without a doubt are the two CHEAPEST spells in the game. Personally I wouldnt use them on a PC ever if I had my choice, if somebody uses one one me however I kinda go off. I dont even HAVE IGMS however, and I survive fine..."

Sorry but to me that sounds like whinning, and I have asked about 4 times for a viable alternative, no one seems to want to do anything but complain about a tactict that is viable. If you want me (I use these tactics) to change, give me something to change to. I'm open. The simple fact is, this tactic works any class, so I'm sticking to my guns. I consider myself fairly creative and have sparred several tactics in Fredian against several different classes.

I have yet to get into a single mage vs. mage battle. There is always someone else involved, so I need to be prepared for that, not just a mage duel. If I were preparing for a mage duel I would change nearly 1/2 my spells...

[FaithIsTruth]

Phoenix said:

Were you reading the other thread? It started with this...

"These, without a doubt are the two CHEAPEST spells in the game. Personally I wouldnt use them on a PC ever if I had my choice, if somebody uses one one me however I kinda go off. I dont even HAVE IGMS however, and I survive fine..."

Sorry but to me that sounds like whinning, and I have asked about 4 times for a viable alternative, no one seems to want to do anything but complain about a tactict that is viable. If you want me (I use these tactics) to change, give me something to change to. I'm open. The simple fact is, this tactic works any class, so I'm sticking to my guns. I consider myself fairly creative and have sparred several tactics in Fredian against several different classes.

I have yet to get into a single mage vs. mage battle. There is always someone else involved, so I need to be prepared for that, not just a mage duel. If I were preparing for a mage duel I would change nearly 1/2 my spells...

I have given about 10 different alternatives, I can give them all again. . . :

Diversify spells, use a cariety of elemental damages instead of just, for example fire, because nobody can really have resistance to everything and not suck horribly

Use different damaging spells that it's hard to get immunities for i.e. finger of death and horrid wilting

For more spells of a particular type, use still or silent spell to move them up a spell slot and then use them some more, siince this will add around 6 more spells of that type (if you're a sorc of high level)

There are a few. . . people can experiment with different spell combinations on their own, I already gave one very good example of how to disable an opponent quickly in one round.

I HAVE tested the igms vs. spelll mantle, and it does absorb by spell and not by level of the IGMS. Forceful hand is easy to counter it seems, by mind spell immunity. I was under the impression that it didnt work due to a careless mistake on my part, I was fighting somebody and had on protection vs evil, which gives immunity to mind spells, but only to those of the alignment (in that case evil) where my opponent in this case was neutral or good. Mindblank works nicely as well.

If I sounded like I was whining I apologize, I really dont mind being killed. Just that these really are. . . boring, and difficult to defend against. And these spells can be ESPECIALLLY unfair since this is an RPish server and you dont have somebody saying "Would you like to duel?" before he attacks.

As to your creativity Phoenix, if you have given tactics against many classes. . . why continue using these spells if the tactics worked that is? Dont get me wrong, I'm not questioning your creativity, but it's a rather obvious question.

[Spathic]

each missle is treated as a lvl 1 spell? is that true?

((PS certain Subraces have as many as 3 elemental immunities... after that it is a matter of feats or choosing the right equiotment to put up a very tough defence against elemental attack types))

[Preedy1978]

There is a defence against it...just find it!! How many times does someone have to say? If its in the game, im gonna use it...its up to the other person to defend against it!

Methods used may be considered cheap and noobish (euck) , but what the hell? If its in the game, its in the game and we all should really try to figure out a way to defend against it rather than moaning about it.

Anyways, all this is PvP anyways....if all people want to do is duel, then they should go to a dueling server and duke it out.

[FaithIsTruth]

Well put Preedy, there isnt a defense against it however other than spell resistance and mantle. Myself and every single PvP Server creator has tried to find one and it's just not out there. And yes, Spathic, when dealing with a mantle each missile is counted as a level one spell against the mantle. You guys can all use what spells you like I guess, but it's still just really boring

[Zhoreb]

First of all, I don't think it is cheap to use the best spells/feats/weapons over and over again. I am not saying I am opposed to try out new combo's, spells, weapons etc, but I will try them in friendly duels. When any of my characters gets into a IC fight, he will use the best spells/techniques known to him to survive. It's not the best time to try something new, when someone is after your life.

[Phoenix]

FaithIsTruth said:

I have given about 10 different alternatives, I can give them all again. . . :

Diversify spells, use a cariety of elemental damages instead of just, for example fire, because nobody can really have resistance to everything and not suck horribly

Actually yes they can, look at the subraces, also look at the ring of power, 15 resisit on 3 elemental types+freedom. Besides no one is answering my main problem with any elemental style attack. With any spell doing elemental damage your limited to ~100, yes you get get a little higher, but not much. So how do you kill someone with 600+HPs doing ~100/spell, that's ~200/round or 3 rounds. Don't you think they will use a potion of heal at some point? Do you have more spells than they have heal potions? No, since you don't this tactic isn't viable. They will keep attacking you and healing until you run out of spells.

FaithIsTruth said:

Use different damaging spells that it's hard to get immunities for i.e. finger of death and horrid wilting

For more spells of a particular type, use still or silent spell to move them up a spell slot and then use them some more, siince this will add around 6 more spells of that type (if you're a sorc of high level)

There are a few. . . people can experiment with different spell combinations on their own, I already gave one very good example of how to disable an opponent quickly in one round.

Again my basic problem with this tactic is hitpoints, heck my wizard can get over 300 hitpoints with certian EQ on, you couldn't kill me with that tactic, much less a d8/d10 hit dice person. Just about everone is immune to death, so please limit this to viable tactics. Oh, and when I say 'just about everyone' I mean enough people not to bother memorizing it.

FaithIsTruth said:

I HAVE tested the igms vs. spelll mantle, and it does absorb by spell and not by level of the IGMS. Forceful hand is easy to counter it seems, by mind spell immunity. I was under the impression that it didnt work due to a careless mistake on my part, I was fighting somebody and had on protection vs evil, which gives immunity to mind spells, but only to those of the alignment (in that case evil) where my opponent in this case was neutral or good. Mindblank works nicely as well.

If I sounded like I was whining I apologize, I really dont mind being killed. Just that these really are. . . boring, and difficult to defend against. And these spells can be ESPECIALLLY unfair since this is an RPish server and you dont have somebody saying "Would you like to duel?" before he attacks.

As to your creativity Phoenix, if you have given tactics against many classes. . . why continue using these spells if the tactics worked that is? Dont get me wrong, I'm not questioning your creativity, but it's a rather obvious question.

I choose these tactics because it's what's left when you discard things that don't work. It works against all classes, even as a high level wizard you still only have so many spells. And when you faced with casting all you best spells just to kill another epic character you don't have the benefit of diversifying too much, so I go with what works.

I truely understand wanting to see/do something different, I'm pretty sure I have tested all the strategies you have mentioned and none of them would drop a fighter in Fredian.

[Preedy1978]

erm....there IS a defence against it faith...go and look for it!



well put as well Phoenix...use what works...its up to each person to figure that out for themselves.

For the risk of sounding rude...Faith, you DO need to explore around you more...as i have stated so many times before in game and on the forum...on this server there is a way to defend against EVERYTHING. (Obviously not at the same time).

[FaithIsTruth]

I object to healing as well. . . but those were the tactics I gave that you kept saying I didnt give, whether they work or not

Just about everone is immune to death, so please limit this to viable tactics. Oh, and when I say 'just about everyone' I mean enough people not to bother memorizing it.

Death magic immunity limits to DEATH magic, magics such as Phantasmal killer that kill you if you fail your will save. Not the actual negative damage. The only way you can get immu to those spells are by getting spell level absorbtion and immunity to necromancy. . . I have yet to see somebody with those two without them having on ethereal visage or shadow shield on, so viable tactic? yes. Except for the healing thing. . . if somebody healed on me I'd probably go ahead and use IGMS after I gave it my best effort to play fair.

[Blake]

Ok didnt read all the posts just read May's to get an idea of what she was talking about...and if these points have been made already ignore me...but....


1. Fighters are powerful kind of, Knock down and critical are their two major benifits their strength allows them to knock just about anything down (And blake has disarm wich so far only avair can resist) However after the items on this server i have come to find in PvP terms blake is useless....EVERYONES immune to crits and knock down so there goes knocking a mage down so they cant cast, and no dev crit cause EVERYONES immune, the only thing left is disarm wich on mage doesnt matter so Mage Vs Fighter...Fighter never wins if the mage uses bigbys hand, or anything else (espicaaly since my fighter is completly str based and doesnt have immunity to mind spells) i could probably get better items but here is the big thing...i dont care

Wich bring me to my next point...

What are all of you complaining about? it donned on me after i got upset breifly after being pked with my druid amerien....i suddenly had to ask myself why i was upset? i didnt lose anything, the cleric ressed me and even if you respawn what isnt 2000 xp the max you lose? come on now thats nothing espicaly on this server

Face it PvP here is useless if you lose to cheap timestops suck it up, if its someone you hate go IC and respawn dont let ther person you hate res you thats just stupid and bad rp

The only reason i can see someone getting upset over PvP is if you lost something for dying IE on my old server you die you Lose all items and gold (Dropped where you flopped) and you automaticcly lose 2 levels, resses cost 6500 gold and the most gold i have EVER seen on that serever in 8 months was 9000 also you dont get to watch whats hapening you go to the "Fugue" where you chill with "Bones the wine counsiler" until someone gets the money to res you and make the half hour (yes RL half hour) trip to res you in the city that is nearly impossible to get to carrying a body (and your body doees weight 200 pounds) without someone else dying...so in this case YES be ticked off that people are using cheap spells

but if you can respawn with only 2000 xp gone or wait for someone to res you since 99% of the poeople on this server are nice....why are you all complaining? use timestop on me i dont care lol

ok im done ranting ;D