PvP?

[Blake]

ok i was going to do a poll on this but couldnt think of how to work the options so im just going to write another novel of a post for you all to read ;D (this is what happens when it is slow when im at work )

Ok does it matter? i want people honest opinions...

You kill someone, they get ressed, they go about their bussiness you go about your bussiness not a big deal..

the only thing that i could see being hurt is a charactors pride IC and OOC wich really doesnt mean crap except bragging rights

Now here is the tricky question if you dont think PvP matters here do you think it should?

my personal opinion is NO, because if for somereason lets say mak put in a large penality for being pked (like the person who losses losses a level or something) you would see a TON of people being upset all the time and alot of people getting pissed OOC at otheres which is bad, that happened on my old serve ri explained how bad you could screw someone over by pking them in faiths post and i forgot to mention you HAVE to have a dm tell you its ok before you PK, i killed 5 peopel all abover level 6 ((thats high level im the BEAST on the server and im 9)) so i basiccly just killed 5 players down to level 4 0 items 0 gold (worse they owe a TON in res money) and alot of inconvinence so they were pissed at me OOC, that is why i dont want that here i like the LAX pk...you get made IC at someone (like blake and avair) and you try to kill them 3 times (notice the TRY) of course i lost but i didnt lose anything and it was all IC it makes it FUN

now that is my opinon on pk here i want to hear others

maybe some of you want something besides a res to come from pking and maybe some of you have good ideas better ones than i have i want to hear them ;D

im stuck at work for another like 7 hours so you will see alot of posts like this from me in the mean time, so please throw me some ideas so i can write some nice replies

[Silentus]

Yeah, I want the best of both worlds, which of course is imposible.

I want death to mean something significant, but the repercussions are to important to the PLAYER
Problem is that the only other easy methods are XP reduction, gold reduction or inventory loss. XP reduction is not really fair in my opinion - I think you would learn more form dying than not. Besides which it is EXTREAMLY unpopular. Gold is not controllable on a small enough level to make that work very well with crafting systems in place. Inventory loss pisses off ALOT of players (not myself, but thats just me).

I want characters to be able to kill each other IC and thier players laugh about it OOC.
Some people can handle this, but many cannot. Even really good rople players frequently get into dumb personal grudges over this stuff. Its a shame, but also a fact.

I offer no solutions. Just that imho an IC kill followed by an OOC rez generally ruffles the fewest feathers and allows IC RP to continue in the smoothest fasion by reducing PLAYER conflict. Most of these issues simply come down to RP maturity and the fun factor - you just have to figure it out between yourself, your character, your opponents character, and your opposing player.

(BTW, if ANYONE kills any character of mine, I will happily offer you some items on my person or even all of them. I feel its right, but Im not about to try to make a rule as such. That said, please dont single me out because I've said it

[Phoenix]

PvP does matter, it's all RP, or it should be. Here's my opinion, if people want a reason not to PvP look for RP reasons. Most people, no matter how thingyy they are, wouldn't want to get into a fight to the death. Honestly I see too much PvP for it all to be RP justified, and not a veiled attpempt at PKing with RP overtones.

edit: proboard filter is funny. I'm not sure why I typed, but it sure wan't 'thingyy'... Ahh bull headed works as a replacement.

[Blake]

Agreed thats kind of my point phenix but i also want to stress that i dont care, at least right now the way the PvP is set up because of the lack of penality

and Sil you make good points and i agree however im one of those rpers that most of the time i can seperate myself from my PC but on occasion i can get upset OOC about things like i did yestorday...

i dont know in my honest opion... (and in NO WAY is this a criticism of this server becasue as i said i love it and i find it actully way more frun and less stressfull than my other server) but honestly one thing that made PvP'ing much more rare and the fact that most people rped their way out of PvPing on my old server was the penality, it also brought the players very close together you HAD to work together to survive or else you were screwed basiccly myself and about 3 other charactors on my other server could solo monsters that would give us xp...

the problem with this is that this server is alot different and HONESTLY i think it is better like this i enjoy playing it much more

anyways my intent wasnt to change the rules on PvP or even the consequences but more so just hear what people think, its not my job to change anything on this server im still a n00b

[addicted2rpg]

I think PvP on a mild level is sufficient.

Do you mean PvP such that it is escalated to PK?

[MitzaVolchenko]

PK=player kill (I hunt you down in every character you play and kill it until you leave the server or I get caught and banned)

RPK-role playing kill (Our characters get into a disagreement that escalates to combat and I kill you)

PK has no place on the server whatsoever, Period. Exclamation!

RPK has every place on the server, it is how it is handled that has caused debate. As I stated in my CJ thread post, I am over the repeated stupid crimes taking away from my RP experiences. For months now I have been raising those that my characters RPK. Since there are some incorrigible players/characters that think that they are RP'ing when they kill folks just to cause a stir EVERY time I see them with any of my characters, I have come to the harsh conclusion that as a player I can't afford to continue encouraging their behavior by giving them free raises (most of my characters caryy only rez's not raises and that is expensive).

Depending on the situation my characters will now be leaving the body for the vultures or standing guard over it until they respawn. I don't like it, but I am tired of not being able to have a single conversation without someone doing something retarded.

[addicted2rpg]

Becareful not to make it too night and day. Beware of the gray side of the force....

I don't have to kill the same person more than once to be a PK. I can just kill everyone once instead.

[Hanah]

Mitza's hit the nail on the head squarely, and driven said nail right through clear to the other side.

There is something deeply unsatisfying and on many levels pitiful about killing for attention from the 'good guys'. It gets old real fast. It gets dull. It has minimal entertainment value for anyone but the killer. In essence, Derto slaying is a thinly veiled attempt at self-gratification (take that as you will). That being said, involving other PCs in it (the repeated slayings of two PCs come to my memory quickly as being especially tedious) is just, well, tacky. You like killing stuff? Let me recommend this wonderful game with patches even less frequent than NWN: it's called ''Diablo II". You kill stuff. You get treasure. You kill some more stuff. Sounds fun don't it?

That being said, not all killing of PCs or NPCs or even the chicken is of this level of mediocre "RP". I don't think anyone wants an all-happy, all-loving, all-peaceful Fredian where we get together and swap quiche recipes (although I could be mistaken, wouldn't be the first time). There are many ways to instigate 'evil' or at least unsavoury RP relations with characters who identify as good or lawful. The equivalent of a drive-by (senseless Derto slaughter or feeble insult followed by fleeing) isn't really one of those ways though.

Needless to say this is all my opinion. You may be right, I may be crazy, but then again you may be wrong;-)

Hanah

[Phoenix]

addicted2rpg said:

I think PvP on a mild level is sufficient.

Do you mean PvP such that it is escalated to PK?

I have been irritated about very iffy RP behind kills to the point I think some of it is just PKing. I'm not naming names, because it's not that bad/blatant. However I do feel that people are not RPing things out , like missed D20 rolls upon waking up (to remember how they died) still lead to revenge killing. Usualy the person just 'hangs' around and waits for another 'reason' to attack (coincidently the same person that just dropped them). Or people just attack another for insulting them. I understand someone wanting to defend themselfs, but when did words turn to swords SO easy? Is no one afraid of death? Does their character know they can just hit 'respawn.'

Now I'm not talking about any specific event, more of a pattern of easy PvP. If people want to PvP for the sake of fighting go to the area. Heck even take it one whole area away from town. Is it that necessary to have every PvP battle in the most popular area of the server, or is it because thats where everyone meets TO PvP??? Make me wonder, honestly I'm avoiding West Styne a little because I do want to do other things than fight PvP. That's what made me thing it's not PK than RP PvP.

EDIT: Hanah, be carefull where you lay the blame about who starts things up. Watch the next time your in West Styne and count the number of 'good' people who attack first. The last two nights I played and hung around in West Styne I saw more 'good' people attack first then 'evil'. Makes me wonder if an alignment shift isn't warranted for some...

[Blake]

ok first of all i was misunderstood here

PK=PvP for me, it was merely called PK permission (When given) on my old server it means the same to me and as i said since there was such a high penality for the loser it wasnt often that i Pked (PvPed, RPK or whatever you want to call it) the point of the post is kind of being lost (except hanah makes good points )

mitz i think you missed my point but made a good one in turn

Depending on the situation my characters will now be leaving the body for the vultures or standing guard over it until they respawn. I don't like it, but I am tired of not being able to have a single conversation without someone doing something retarded.

Right this is what im saying...if this is a problem...then is their a way to "fix" it? and what bothers you about the pking other than the fact that it interputs RP'ing....thats what im trying to find out..personally im looking at it as a new challenge, if im rping, and someone runs up and pk's (pVp) me then its my new task to figure out how to rp that and how my charator will respon depending his dice roll....

Now if this isnt the case for some of you i want ideas on how we can come to a comprimise? of course this is just discussion please no one point fingers or say names...remeber its a game...we are supposed to be having fun

[Hanah]

Phoenix...

I think most of the folks who RP on Fredian have taken into consideration an IC explanation for why we keep coming back. Just talk to Vugor IC for one variant on that. A number of characters have come to reconcile themselves with the notion that death really isn't all that permanent here.

That being said that doesn't negate the fear of, well, big ouchy swords or spells. I think that this is a fact that some may either neglect or explain away by their characters being fearless Bruce Lee types who feel no pain. (IMO obviously.)

Senseless slaughter, yes, there's this lovely arena in Whillem. By all means go there. And quite frankly: if you just want to PvP why do it where the knights are going to feel obligated to book ya and haul you to Ran? And from a more meta-perspective: why bother doing some half-assed RP to justify PvP when you could just go to a PvP server?

Some of the battles that take place in West Styne do have some RP merit IMO. Not all of them, not by any significant margin though. What do we as a group want to do to address this issue?

Hanah

[Shwabba]

PK, PvP, RPvP, whatever you'd like to call it, I have to say that all the incidents I've witnessed on Fredian have seemed....arbitrary. Since suggestions on how to better the situation were asked for, here's mine (note, it is only a suggestion. Some of you will absolutely hate it ).
Whenever a player kills another player, they get to take either 1 non-container item or all the gold currently carried. However, both players must then write a short (300 words or less?) story about how and why the killing occurred. The story must then either be posted on the boards (maybe under Fredian stories, or in a new, dedicated topic?) or it could be emailed to Makz or whoever he would put in charge of it. I figure the board topic would be easiest since it's less work for makz. Anyway, having the threat of losing either your gold or an item as well as then having to write a story about it might bring a little more thought and caution into the PvP process. Just my suggestion.

*Quickly raises his Flame-proof shield*
Your Flame-Retardant Neighborhood Shwabbaman

[Silentus]

That is part of the reason for the CJ discussion here.

Do I think that CJ will cut down on RPK? Not too much really.
Do I think that it will lead to some much more interesting RP around RPK? Yes, and ultimately that is the point. If people are RPKing for cheap thrills, lets raise teh price of the those thrills and let everybody have more fun with it

[Phoenix]

MASS BANNINGS ARE IN ORDER!!!

Just kidding... ;D

Hanah, I do think some of it is half-assed role play to justify PK is exactlly what I think some people are doing. If/when it is RP, and there are some good RP conflicts in W. Styne indeed, that's what the CJ system is for. Otherwise it's up to the DMs if it's not...

On a related note how do you look/save the conversation/action log files? That + some screen shots are what I'm planning on taking to show what I'm talking about if *some* people don't put more effort into PvP. Honeslty I don't even know if such unnamed people are on the forums...

[Blake]

ok here is how i see things from what you have all been talling me (and others)

it seems im not the only one that seems to think the pk has gotten a little exsesive....

and lets face it...rpk pk...PNP its all the same im sorry, depening on how it is done doesnt matter like hanah said this isnt a game meant for alot of PnP'ing...(but thats my opinon so i could be wrong)

Well here is one thing i have said before, the fact that the penailty on my server for death was SOOO high lead to the fact that if you PK'ed someone you better have good reason because that person is liable to be set back a couple of months charactor wise....

in my 8 months there i PK'ed twice and the last time it was on 5 people...it was part of a dm plot i felt bad OOC but i had to do it....well it lead to the point where my charactor was hung to the point of near death and then drug back to the glen and healed (in all rp of course)

this is the opposite of what is happening now, there has to be middle ground somewhere where the "consequences" on BOTH sides are bad enough so people TRY to avoid it rather then run right up and smack you however no so bad that you lose 2 or 3 months of play time...i mean even a month of play time is to much IMO thats why i left thats why i am here afterall....soo...i have an idea but i want to hear what others think...and like i said we are having fun dont throw blame around once again this is just a game

((oh yes i apologize if i told the pk story before i feel like im repeating myself and its because my thoughts are scattered as im typing these replys in chunks...10 min typing, 2 hours later i get a break to finihs so if i repeated myself sorry )