Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Mar 1, 2004 19:31:19 GMT
Hello,
I noticed that in the hawkmen skirmishes of Sunday that my greater sanctuary spell was regularly ignored by hawkmen. This is something I've never encountered before and I am wondering if 1.62 introduced something nasty to that spell.
Any other spellcasters who use greater sanc: maybe could we pool our experiences to determine if this is in fact a 1.62 bug and if so, formulate a gently worded email to the dear fellows at BioWare;-)
Hanah
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Post by ride on Mar 1, 2004 19:43:00 GMT
gently worded? your much to nice hanah.... True sight goes thru everything invisible in this game, it always has hasn't it? I don't think it was introduced in 1.62...... <my_letter> Dear Bioware developers, you suck... get a clue. Ever heard of playtesting? -fredian spellcasters </my_letter>
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Mar 1, 2004 19:49:17 GMT
R1de, I've regularly tiptoed past hawkmen while in Greater sanc... no Hanah's were injured:-)
My understanding is that Greater sanc isn't invisibility, that being said I could be wrong. I've spent a lot of time hanging out around battles while our meatheaded warriors get smacked around, I dive in, res, dive out, no problems:-) Let's just say I wasn't too useful the other day, the 'dive in' part was good but it went downhill from there:-\
I'll admit I was being a bit flip with the 'gently worded' bit but hey you catch more flies with honey than vinegar;-)
Hanah ... needs a Red Cross armband to mark her as noncombatant sheesh
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Post by ride on Mar 1, 2004 20:14:23 GMT
lol you do need that armband.... I thought greater Sanc was to make you invisible (basically) to "any living thing" *breaks out NWN manual* "True Seeing" (Divination): Can see through Sanctuary and Invisility spells" In my experience of walking around with TS on you *can* see everyone, no matter if they are hiding rogue/shadowdancer style or invis or sanc'd.... I don't know hanah, I'm not saying your wrong.... just saying that I don't think it is anything "new"
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Post by Phoenix on Mar 1, 2004 21:46:39 GMT
See and attack are different. TS allows you see them, but not select, so you can't attack. The desc. of GS is you are etheral and invisible (best recollection). Etheral means you are on the etheral plane, not the prime material plane. Since that is where the weapon/spell is coming from it is unable to affect you.
Back to the question at hand, it like timestop, seems borked.
Prior to 1.62 the only thing that allowed you to touch someone under GS was area affect spells (like fireball, still couldn't target them, but if they were in the area it hit, it shouldn't, but did), and truth helms.
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Post by ride on Mar 1, 2004 22:40:44 GMT
Hanah, I was just remembering running around ferrus with Erith... way before 1.61 even.... I used GS all the time out there (we used to just stand back all invis and black blade them to death well.... some of us did ) the only warped that could ever see us when GS'd was the lil rogue, which (I understood) was because he had true sight... and as soon as he saw us he would give chase, kicking my butt on more than one occassion.... I don't know.... bioware probably broke it more in the latest "fix". lol and now that I think about it, I think I do remember wandering right by TS'd hostile NPC's while having GS up and nothing happened..... weird.... hmmm could it have something to do with inititive roles?
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Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 2, 2004 19:49:53 GMT
In addition to being seen by people with true seeing, sanctuary and GS allow a WILL saving throw to see if they "disbelieve" (lacking a better word) the mental blocking of your visibility.
Some people's minds are more resistent to trickery than others.
Modified: The book and the IG description don't appear to match totally.
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Post by addicted2rpg on Mar 2, 2004 21:17:47 GMT
Who was first, the chicken or the egg?
Watching players fight Damien Swift (who has True Sight), I have seen Greater Sanc people able to observe.
What r1de posts in the manual is worth noting.
It looks like Greater Sanc was bugged in 1.61, and fixed in 1.62, rather than the other way around.
If his warped cave experiences as he thinsk they are, Bioware may have done a great deal of breaking and fixing and re-breaking with this one.
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Mar 3, 2004 18:29:08 GMT
In the PvP area of greater sanctuary, I was going to test it out with Xilo because Mala walked through his greater sanc whenseh executed him. We figured it was because he had not set her hsotile, but that may not be true...since the hawkmen should have read as entirely hostile...hmmm, time to go test stuff, I suppose.
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Post by Omega Darkstar on Mar 3, 2004 18:52:06 GMT
Per the wonderful Bioware manual and I quote: "The caster becomes ethereal. No other creature can detect the caster. " If I remeber correctly from the in-game description it says the same thing pretty much. So according to Bioware NPC creatues atleast should not be able to detect you. Is it because the hawkmen are beefed up? If it is what allows them to wade through it. I've been in the same situation where you stand there and stare at them and they don't attack. Guess I'll have to check it out again to see the results.
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Post by addicted2rpg on Mar 3, 2004 20:35:12 GMT
speaking of the PvP area, here is a trick from an old classical PvP expert: 1. You can't target people who are sanc'd with spells (at least in ONE of the NWN versions it was this way) 2. You can dispel the ground right next to them to take it off
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Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 3, 2004 21:13:51 GMT
You must also read True Seeing when asking about greater sanctuary, because True Seeing allows people to see through invisibility and sanctuary spells.
Both Fal Druar and Eriden Shadow Weaver wear greater cloak of eyes (both are elves and know that knowledge of an opponents where-a-bouts is very important), they both have low AC as a result, but feel the trade off is important. And both can see people who are invisible or under the influence of a sanctuary spell, but when dealing with people using santuary a will saving throw is made, this may determine whether or not I can attack the person, never tried, but would be willing to OOCly for testing.
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Post by Phoenix on Mar 3, 2004 21:43:47 GMT
Prior to the patch TS allowed you to SEE people under GS, so nothing has changed there. The question is, does it allow you to attack, and I think it does (which I thought it shouldn't, just because you can see etheral doesn't mean you can hit it).
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Xiloscient
Fredian
~Xiloscient ~Bora ~Sable ~Gorfnod ~Lia
Posts: 94
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Post by Xiloscient on Mar 6, 2004 12:51:12 GMT
Alright well lemme share my 2 cents on this... I have noticed that when you are in an area without any PC's that whe you cast GS it only gives you the effect of regular Sanctuary... And the original sanctuary is equal in every way to plain old invis. So if you cast GS all alone you only get the effects as being invis... and so if then later you walk to to any PC and they attack you .. GS does nothing.. Another thing I have noticed... If I cast GS in west styne with a bunch of ppl and so I get the GS effect and not the regular sanctuary effect.. and then I go out and walk by some bandits outside of town.. they see right threw it... GS .. the ONLY thing it does.. is prevent PC's from directly clicking on you... and anything that goes with that.. including attacking.. But against NPS's bioware I am assuming made it the same effect as normal sanctuary just to catch the whole invis thing.. cuase against non TS NPC's it is essentialy the same thing... This is becuase invis.. against NPS's Always make you non-detectable... No matter there spot check ect... inv. vs NPS equal total toal non-detection... TS NPC.. see through invis though... So.. if your accualy still reading this... Non-TS PC's + GS = No direct attacks TS PC's + GS = No direct attacks Non-TS NPC's + GS or Inv = No detection at all TS NPC's + GS or Inv = Full Attacking
Keep in mind that the version of GS you get.. whether its GS or regualar Sanctuary is all based on if there are any PC's near you when you vast it.. I have tested this all extensively... except for hostile ppl with GS.. but I do know that many Un-hostile People have said.. "wtf i can't click you" When they tried to attack Xilo.. as silly as that is... Mala that time you killed my level 20 Xilo with your Level 40 Mala... and you walked right past my GS.. I truely cannot expain... But I know it was not becuase you had TS.. perhaps becuase I was just in a no pvp when I cast the GS or something I'm not sure... but everything I have said above is what I have observed as a GS using necromancer.. Um... yeh.
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Post by Silentus on Mar 8, 2004 23:56:36 GMT
As much as I hate to add to this confusion, I think Im going to - the biggest differenc eI can see beween GS and other forms of invisibility is the ability to use it in melee. Normal invis doesnt do much when you are in a fight - the baddeis still target you just fine (they may sufffer a -to hit though). With GS they lose you altoether.
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