What is a grief in IoF?

[Aliases]

I explain...

Yesterday I was entering in the area of "Deers" when a guys with a spider, very low level, as I, passed through me.

I continue walking when my fellow friend, also 1st level enter and we lead to the so promissed hunting. I was starving.

When I was ready to charge the poor young deer I notice the fellow that passed me runing almost side by side, we start runing along and had a blast killing those poor meat, although the fellow seemed to be very angry, acusing us to spoiled his deers.

After a brief role play he threatened us, and as in response we declare him as an enemy.

The dispute would be over if the villain woudn't return to confirm his threaten upon us.

I turn to a hostile position and cast a simple entangle spell, as for my admiration the lad vanish in the air together with his spider.

After a moment another guy, much better experienced then the other appears and threaten us again, isn't that METAGAME? LOGOUT TO AVOID PVP, SWITCH CHARACTERS... WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS THAT?

After a OOC role play with his 40th level character he understand and apologize, but I think that he would prolly do that again with some other poor adventure.

I suggested him to look for a PW ACTION server, or so, cause this is not a ROLE PLAYER behavior.

I have both name of his characters and login account, but I want to know how this kind of grief is considered in this server.

In any serious server I've been playing this is punished with cd banishment, wich I certanly do not desire for the mentioned kid, but I warn would fit him well.

For the best of Fredian
Farewell
Aliases

[Phoenix]

The rules can be found here. makzimia.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=important&action=display&thread=1073952876

And in your journal if you need to point a player to a specific rule in game.

These rules should cover what your experienced.

"4. PvP, Pickpocketing of another player is acceptable as long as the other player is not considerably lower than you... also you may fight another player if it is in RP reasoning... and again they are not considerably lower than you.

4a. PP of a PC is acceptable at 2 times per game day and as long as the player is a: moderate to you and b: above level 5. This applies to a dead PC also.

5. Metagaming for the sake of it is frowned on..."

So it sounds like it was worked out OK between you and the other player. Unfortunatly it was all OOC, but sometimes that's necessary to point out rules, or clarify something. I don't like to talk OOC, in general, but if it's needed, it's needed.

If you want anything more to come out of it you need to take screenshots and send them to a DM as proof (assuming they weren't watching). To take a screenshot hit printscreen button in game, this creates a .tga file in the neverwinter nights directory.

Just reporting the player and character names can only get the DMs watching that person. I don't think they act unless you have proof, or they saw it themselves.

[Silentus]

Based on what you've typed, it sounds like griefing to me. Normal circumstances for this behavior usually would be warning, followed by CD Ban if the behavor contiues. I can assure you that this sort of thing is not really common here and we all frown upon it.

When you see that kind of thing, please jump to the DM channel and tell them that it is going on. If one is on, they will likely watch the situation and act accordingly. If a DM is not on, you may take screenshots to backup your complaint or keep a running client log.

Please do not be too put out by a rare bad egg or by RP misunderstandings - most here are quite good about this. Obviously this was not a misunderstanding - switching characters like that is metagaming and greifing unless there is some RP reason that it works (which had better be explained to all paties involved). I would recommend mailing Makz or another DM with the name of the offender so they can at least keep an eye open.

[Aliases]

I thank thee for the quickly reply dear gentlemen.
I will take your wise advice and procedure for the sake of the server.

Fare thee well
Aliases

[JoScMa]

And for your info, I am a DM and if I am on as a player (account name is JoScMa) and you need that stuff sorted out, come talk to me or send me a message through these boards. If not, talk to one of the other DM's if possible.

[Aliases]

Thank you all!
I'll be online in a few....

[MitzaVolchenko]

Gotta say the greatest asset this server has is its extremely responsive DM staff and overall very responsible playerbase. There are perhaps 2-3 hours a day when there is not at least one DM lurking about. If you aren't sure who the DM's are just message another player and ask...

[AvengersWraith]

Screen shots are very handy to have when something happens that shouldn't have and you are unsure if a DM is on or not.

NWN made making screen shots really easy, just need to clear them out of the main folder every now and then or they may get overwritten. I don't know if the naming protocols for screen shots was addressed with 1.62 and I haven't been making a lot of screen shots since (to busy playing).

NWN works just fine if you add a "saved screen shots" folder and catagorize additional folders as desired. I lumped mine into sub-folders with dates in the following formats "20040406", which would hold screen shots I moved from the main NWN folder into the subfolder on this date; or name it something else if like "PKer screen shots" so you have your screen shots organized.

Just my 2 cents on organizing screen shots to help with possible griefing or and screen shot project.

[Silentus]

It has been brought to myt attentino that perhaps griefing is more common here than I believed. I tend to be on later in the evening when perhaps some of the more troublesome element is not around. The coments I've heard seem to indicate that alot of the griefing is not reported due to a fear of retribution from the offending party or thier friends. This simply is not a good reason. If they act in a way that is inconsistant with IC behavior they likely also would be banned for thier actions. Even if nothing is immediately done about it, it give the DMs an idea of who to keep an eye on. Believe me, they do watch - but can do so alot easier if they have an idea who to look for.

If you have a problem with someones OOC behavior (ie griefing) do the following:

1. Report to a DM - Obviously if a DM sees the behavior first hand that is by far the best proof.
2. Take a screenshot - If no DM is available or you want more proof just hit the printscreen key. Note it is a good idea to open your chat window to the max size and focus it on the offensive text before taking the snapshot. The file by default is saved as NWN####.TGA in the NWN root folder. Mutliple screenshots save as same file name with the number increment by +1. Screenshots are difficult to fake for most people, so are a pretty reliable source of proof.
3. Turn on Chat Logging - Simply edit the NWPLAYER.INI to include ClientChatLogging=1 in the [Game Options] section. This creates a file (nwclientlog1.txt) in the LOGS dir that gets overwritten each session. Note this obviously must be done BEFORE the grief happens in order to be logged. I keep it on all the time anyway. These are only text files thus obviously are easily edited, so it isnt an excelent source of proof - but still worth doing.

Please do not feel intimidated by the DM staff - they are quite approachable. Also, most senior players around here will be more than happy to offer advise. Most of them know the rules here and are able to stay reletivly impartial in these matters. Obviously you may also come to me in game anytime (although I'm also just another player like you - usually on as Vugor).

[Phoenix]

In addition to Silentus' comments; expand the chat and action windows to the fullest before you take a screen shot. Thats better proof of the conversation then the log, as editing the screen shot is a lot harder to fake.

Please report griefing characters, if they are doing it to you it's probably their SOP for others as well. If we nip it in the bud, less players get frustrated. The DMs here are more than willing to resolve the problems.

[Preedy1978]

Yeah, like JoScMa said...or like anybody else here...just give us DM's a call on the channel when that sort of BS is taking place, and we'll be there in a flash. That sort of behaviour sounds like griefing to me as well.

[addicted2rpg]

Very good all. Right.
1. That would be griefing
2. We don't allow it
3. ditto on the screen shot and the report
4. Thank you

Even in DM mode I take screen shots just to put things on record in case Makzimia wants to see them, but (and its a good thing too) he trusts my judgement enough that there is no need to trouble him with them, although ocassionally I might send acrossed something extremely offensive so he knows what he may be dealing with in the future. A recently banned player who I won't mention but a lot of you could probably guess had himself and his friend caught in such a screen shot last month. And here he is today, banned -- probably because more such shots followed or got caught red handed.

It is disturbing you had this experience Aliases, but I am also glad you could take care of it. For every such case that happens like yours, there is another that didn't get resolved. It is these prepetuating problems that ruin the fun for everyone else. Which comes down to the question and the answer:

What is a grief in IoF?

It's ruining someone else's fun, as a playstyle.

And not by inaction.

(i.e., you are ruining my fun because you won't come and fight me, griefing is an active behavior not a lack of one.)