Uh oh, FR nastiness...

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

Okay, seeing my character is rediculously into Forgotten realms...

Is the cosmology in fredian coincide with the Toril cosmology? The existance of the astral plane makes me wonder if the other planes exist out there. In fact... Does the Weave even find its place in Fredian or is it a different version, in which Mystra has no control of? Obviously, the Shadow Weave can't exist in Fredian due to scripting problems (The rules for the SW are crazy and strange...) But I'm still wondering like mad...

Information helps me make more ideas for Fredian and eventually refine the Automaton Saga into Fredian terms. ((or why the Netherscrolls should never go anywhere))

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

Obviously I;m going to have to write the book of Fredian Cosmology and magic flows...

[Hanah]

Keep in mind that not all characters currently residing on Fredian originally resided on a FR-based world.

While I cannot speak for things at the DM level, I can say that some characters may respond with indifference/awe/ridicule/suspicion to someone spouting on about something they are not familiar with or do not understand. I don't think anyone would say nay for you to build up your character in the context of his/her homeworld but going to great lengths to explain FR-specific things may not be really relevant to many people you find yourself RPing with. It may be that by making an effort to hammer things out that don't entirely pertain to Fredian, you are making more work for yourself than is necessary:-)

On the other hand we have been given a great deal of mythology specific to Fredian that we can work with...

Hanah
... time to bust out my disclaimer again: only my opinion

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

I know, I was hoping that maybe what I write could help make a standard... it also explains any crazy rules guru garbage that people yell out, like myself..
For instance, the fact that players do not have to use material components is due to a greater amount of "Weave" or basic arcane energy in the atmosphere....

I'lll write it out and present it later...

[Ihavenofeet]

Wierd i have one thing to say...good luck. I brought over a character from PnP worshipping a diety not in FR, so that makes even harder to push RP of worshipping his diety. You can start with a book and work off of the pantheon and things like that but to get it to that level is hard IC. the planes is along that same line...heh thats a kinda geometry joke (nevermind)...anyways not everyone /class-specific/ even know the weave and other planes exist. It could be fun for higher level quests, but try to convince makz to include more planes, if he doesn't have an ace up his sleeve already.

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

this isn't about dieties, it's about the exact opposite! Wahaha... I should scrap mystra's presense and see if there is a diety in the pantheon, or will be one, of arcane magic.

[MitzaVolchenko]

There is one...you will find several folks have identified the face of their deities form home with one of the Fredian deities...works very well.
This is a historically sound principle as well, the major Christian holidays just happen to coincide with older 'pagan' holidays. The Romans just happend to have versions of the older Greek counterpart gods, etc.
Just think of it as religious evolution.

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

So you're saying that the Gods of the Pantheon coincide almost in a paralel fashion to the FR realms, basically making all my in depth IC concept brewing worth nothing...?

What my concept is so far is that arcane magic has no diety at all. The energy that flows through an arcane caster's hands is basically a natural thing that looms about. Or perhaps it was created, but is never truly controled... so many ideas...

Lol, I'm getting too far off... I'll get some ideas together tomorrow...

[Hanah]

Hey Nat, do you have two cents to spare on this thread?

Like all mythologies, the gods of Fredian represent archetypes. These archetypes are concepts that we (as players) are able to easily identify with and recognise. For this reason there will be some conceptual overlap between the deities of Fredian, of the Forgotten Realms, or of the Incas for that matter. They are ideas that we as humans can readily grasp.

I don't think anyone wil tell you anything you do for RP is a waste of time if you are enjoying it. On the other hand, don't necessarily expect other characters to accept your character's view of the world... in the example you gave of material components, you may have one justification for it while someone else may have another. All is cool. Religious debate = opportunity for RP:-)

Hanah
... actually had a bit of a squabble with the god of the arcane one day, didn't I 'toon:-)

ON EDIT: yeah I'm a bit sleepy... this doesn't contradict my previous post in this thread though. There's a difference between defining personal RP and defining pan-server stuff.... okay I'm going to bed now honest:-)
#nosmileys

ON EDIT AGAIN: there is a deity of the arcane, Riphath... although to be honest I'm not personally certain if he *is* the arcane, merely a representation of it, or a patron god of mages. Any Riphathians out there?#nosmileys

ON EDIT AGAIN AGAIN: ooooh head hurts... is a deity a representation or an embodiment...#nosmileys#nosmileys

[TheNaga]

Andrew worships Mystra you know he also blames you being a complete nut((somtimes)) on shar actualy he blames 99% of problems that magic users get on shar!! ;D

<edit: more added>

Oh and ever think the real reason there's no shadow weave isn't really scripting its just mystra is so powerful in fredian she destroyed it there now that would be good !!

[Norlinor]

I understood different what Wierd has written. I think he is not talking about gods, but about how magic works. Which I think I could help a little, ‘cause I’ve rolled two PnP weavekeepers in different campaigns.

There are lots of theories about magic, so it depends on the character point of view. I’ll write what mystran clergy believes in, all 2nd ed. stuff…

How magic works?
There is an invisible energy atmosphere where all magic flows, this is called Weave. The Weave is everywhere and can be used in several ways. Before the archmage Karsus casted the 12th level Karsus’ Avatar magic was free, being Mystril a chaotic neutral god, casters could use the Weave in different ways at the same time, which means there was little rules about using magic. Karsus’ spell stole Mystril powers and for some days there was no god of magic and no Weave, skipping the details of how and what happened, magic was reborn, but in a lawful neutral goddess called Mystra, who forbid the 11th and 12th circles of magic and imposed the channeling before casting, so she could have knowledge of what casters were going to do. (this is why casters need to memorize spells before casting, and why who doesn’t have to memorize has a limited number of known spells)
There are different versions of that story, the most important is that Mistril was a true-neutral god and disappeared before Netheril, and Karsus stole the powers from a chaotic-neutral Mystra (goddess already).

How does priestly magic works?
The prayers channel their gods’ powers through the weave.

How does arcane magic works?
The arcanes manipulate the Weave energy into spells.

What are wild magic zones?
Areas where the Weave is not working properly, so it cannot be controlled normally.

What are nule-zones or dead magic areas?
These are areas where the Weave is weak, so it’s impossible to use it.

I can write more if you wish, and even give names of books and Dragon Magazines where there are knowledge about this stuff.

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

Here's my look on it after staying up till 11...

1. The purpose of trying to create a comsology that makes Fredian less freaking reliant on FR, or seem that way. Not everybody knows much about FR, (Especially cosmology) at least I didn't until I got my book. It makes Fredian all the more cooler if it can stand with really good unique IC explainations, instead of falling on the crutch of Forgotten Realms.
2. Making the dieties in Fredian much more significant. In Fredian, there is a MAJOR shortage of credit toward the Fredian dieties. Everything goes to thank the FR dieties, making the thought of worshiping a Fredian god pretty dang insignificant! There was work put into it, and there will be more work put into it to make that work worthwhile!
3. Trying to make Fredian much more mysterious than it seems right now as a branch from FR land.
4. Trying to explain the arcane plane's existance and make it a really really freaky place!
5. Trying to explain things in NW that are due to the incapability to run those specific rules correctly in IC via Fredian thought. (Shadow Weave, Hierophants, archmage abilities, the fact that druids can multiclass and do things right, etc.)

The fact is, perhaps I'm a zealot of the Fredian dieties and the lack of credit they get for anything. It really does bug me that there was work put into the creation of the pantheon, but it really means nothing because of the Forgotten Realm's extreme influence. I guess I'm trying to turn the wave...

Yes, this has changed to religion, because I realised that because the magic domain exists, it must have a diety behind it.

Another good reason for this is to provide a case for the Fredian dieties, which might end up in a conflict between the two forms of worshippers which is strictly IC, which is gooooood. Basically, the religous culture in fredian is extremely weak because of a lack of a case for them at all. (Yes, I've read the section in the faq, but that doesn't swerve me to beleive... need... stronger... coercion!) I'm trying to make that case and to help make Fredian a more interesting place... And dang, the Pantheon is so empty..

[Hanah]

Ahh okay, so we're taking a step back here... readjusts thoughts...

Again, this is just my opinion, but your characters can theorise about whatever they want IC... but at the end of the day, Fredian is not necessarily the Forgotten Realms. It's cool that we're discussing this but we're just philosophising here:-) Each of our characters comes from a different place with potentially different realities entirely. I've met more than one character newly arrived on Fredian from a home where magic didn't exist *at all*... so no reason to believe Fredian is like FR.

Example: Hanah isn't scared/mistrustful/hateful of drow because where she comes from, they're part of fairy tales to scare bad little elves into doing their chores and going to bed on time. Now most of Fredians' current residents would think that's pretty daft. Her world was different when it came to drow... no reason to think that all of our characters didn't come from places where things like magic operated entirely differently.

Maybe we're making things too difficult by attempting to define everything? And moreover... by attempting to define Fredian in terms of something that only a portion of us have any experience with (we aren't all scholars of Forgotten Realms cosmology after all) we are making Fredian less like... well, Fredian.

The following links define Fredian 'reality' so far as our DMs and various thoughtful players have contributed to... they are worth reading.

Fredian Deities
The Nature of Fredian (as told by High King Wend)
Deities
A gap in the godhood...? (okay so this one was more funny than relevant)
Complete Council Meeting Transcripts (7 volumes)

These were threads that bordered on what we've been discussing... in particular the 'Nature of Fredian' post is worth perusal.

I'd love to hear people's opinions on this. I think Ihavenofeet is thinking along the same lines I am here...

Hanah
... the disclaimer gets dusted off again: this is only my opinion
...... a second disclaimer: haven't had any coffee yet
......... hmmm maybe I could add 'disclaimers' to my portfolio as a Fredian goddess

[Hanah]

Eek you got me while I was compiling those links, Wierdness! Okay pause while I actually brew some coffee here, lucidity is required.

For starters, there is no shortage of worshippers for the Fredian deities IMO. This is going to be a fairly aziesel-centric description here, but indulge me...

Talk to Hanah IC. She is Anah's priestess and incorporates a *lot* of her faith into RP. An episode involving her faith (and a convenient explanation for my weeklong absence) can be found in the In Character story forums.

Talk to Garnet IC (although she's variously known as Kether, Red, S, and... well... someone else has another name for her...). She is a devotee of Zadok, quite a different sort of figure from Anah.

Talk to Lyon IC, and read the engrossing "Lyon's Mystery" series in the In Character story forums.

I could type for quite a while here, but there are established followers of Jotham, Ithran, Kedemah, Naphtali, Togarmah, Ophir... possibly a Kirkashian in the works... regardless my point is that there are a lot of players who have actively involved the local mythology into their RP. Do not think you are the only person interested in the Fredian deities and the nature of the islands, because there are so many people who have put a great deal of effort into it as well. To say that 'religious culture in Fredian is weak' only suggests to me that you've not yet met the people who *are* Fredian's religious culture. Go out, RP with some of these people... I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Hanah

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

That's not stopping me from creating a text that will cause upheavals between the two majorities! *Hideously hideous laugh*

Good points, of course... >.<

But honestly, I guess my zealot-like nature from Dark Ages applies here once again.

However, in contrast to Fredian, the cases that FR makes in explaination is superior, and it frankly is used as a majority, so I'm trying to create a counterspell for it in a sense, IC style. I think I should have mentioned in the beggining that what I'm brewing is IC work done by an eccentric priestess who has been searching for the patron who has mysteriously given her powers for the past 40 seasons. I suppose that because of this, she searches and theorizes about everything pertaining to magic, divine power and such. ((Why does someone go to the Arcane Plane for just sights and not exp? That's Ahlin for you...))

Also, I play WIERD, no pun intended, hours, so I guess that's why I haven't seen many Fredian style worshipers... Now that I hit 40, I can concentrate more on discovery and hanging in places.

However, now that you spoke up, you've helped me become even more spurred in studying the planes. The origin of your, Hanah, character gives some insight on the differences between Toril or anything normal... To be blunt, I'm literally reading every detail of the planes from every source to try to understand Fredian's spazmotic nature, in order to make...

1. Character even more strange.
2. To feel special
3. To attempt to contribute to Fredian with something other than the first 2 page set of IC letters... Which aren't that good... >.<

Obviously, nobody agrees with my insane journey to understand everything, in hopes to harness some of it.

From the reactions, this is going to be very interesting for everybody who has strong beleifs IC, since what it appears to be is a nutcase preaching about things... Obviously, the absolute truth is lost, so I might as well not try to make it too in depth, because Fredian shouldn't have standards written by PCs who have been been around for only a month or so. (Me.)

I guess this was really all in vain in terms of myself trying to build something and make a rediculously large crater in things, though I got what I wanted, which is namely, FR cosmology does not coincide truly with the Fredians...

Ah, and so dies the legend... Just wait till I get another looney idea...

Beware, I'll write it... And watch the tumultuous swell of beleifs collide together... (Or at least I hope...)