Balance... and balance

[Lazarus]

Yes, Balance.

Two things, one macro, one micro...

On the macro level, I feel the world is TOO centralized, which means that high level characters are always running around (and thru) the lower level characters. Just last night I had 3 groups of impossibles kill-steal from me, not because they wanted to (I think) but because they HAVE to run thru the places where us lower level characters HAVE to hang, nd slay the mosnters with a single blow...

If I might suggest, make higher level stores, anvils, sewing tables, etc. be in places further out. It's not lke the high level players should NEVER be around, but they are too often too much there... Inversly, keep Styne the place for high level characters, (since it seems to be the center of some high level plot lines) and create some little place further out where WE start, that's good too...

I'm always willing to help with this, if you like my thinking...

Balance number two, those undead by the north gate are worth WAY too much experience. The were-rats are a greater threat, but worth more than a MAGNITUDE less in exp. With this imbalance, everyone is ALWAYS trying to hunt the zombies warriors, and their buddies... heck they arer worth double what I get for a phase spider or a gnoll mage...

Anyway, hope I didn't say anything to get you mad at me...

Lazarus the Minstral, humble worshipper of Hanah the Great... all Hail Hanah!!! hehehe...

(P.S. can I make Hanah my diety?)

[Hanah]

Fine print:

(1) Please note that the previous statement was neither endorsed nor approved of by Hanah Dedraluin and her name is therein used without consent.

(2) Hanah Dedraluin claims no status as "the Great" and would likely blush furiously and stammer at the merest suggestion.

(3) Moreover, the aforementioned "all Hail" is in no way recognised as a threat to the political status quo of the greater Styne region; any indication otherwise is purely coincidental.

(4) In an effort to clarify mortal/divine status, Hanah Dedraluin would like to humbly affirm her mortal condition.

</legalese to cover her elven buttocks>

;D ;D ;D

(( dude, Lazarus you're going to get me in trouble! sheesh:-) ))

[Makzimia]

Ok first of all this was posted in the studio's forums which are clearly marked as such, please don't I know nothing ever goes in there at the moment, but still

Ok your idea of what is there is VERY limited, you personally have not explored much, that is obvious, if you had, you would know that ALL crafters can craft elsewhere each major area other than Whillem currently, has a crafting hall, with all items for such in them, the more experienced and well travelled members of the world do in fact go out and use them. Naturally, because West Styne is the focus of arrival and newer players need to get items etc, it will always have a gravity effect. ALL areas have a cleaning script that works 100% on them at cleaing encounters when a play leaves the area. Tip, if you enter an area that has high level spawns in it and you KNOW that it should not THINK it shouldn't, run out and back in, instead of just wading in boots and all, and you will find it no longer has either a: as many or b: as difficult mob's to deal with.

I will look at the zombie and wererats to see if for some reason I missed setting their difficulty correctly when I adjusted those over a week ago, I did think I got them all, but it is possible I missed some, there are a lot as you can imagine .


I will do the best I can as always to sort these things out and as the dynamics have shifted so much more with more players, and more high level players of course, I am adjusting things, but there are still many centralised areas a low level player can gain XP, and the quests alone are worth doing on the main area you arrived in to give you a leg up.

Makz.

[Lazarus]

I'm sorry, I clearly did not make myself clear... I in no way wanted to suggest that you don't have a lot of places for low level people to go, as I think I've only entered 8 or 10 areas (and am terrified in most of those right now) I obviously have no frame of refrence to that.

What I was saying was, I can't go 5 feet without bumping into these near-god like characters, and though they do have their uses (hehehe) it is annoying to be TRYING to traion when some run by and reflexivly kill things that give them no real exp., especially when I have been fighting them down to almost dead status.

Is this their fault? I doubt it, except on rare occcccasions it is really just what a character does when it comes near a monster, but my choices are very limited. Play on the freeway of greatness, or hide where things aren't worth nearly as much. THIS is what I was refering too, and I can only assume from your reply that my post was unclear, because nothing therein refers to it.

Perhaps a simple fix would be to move the spawn points for the undead away from grand central Styne-tion, but I feel the problem is a bit deeper than that.

Obviously it is your world, but it seemed to me that suggestions were asked for... if our gaming philosophies are in conflict, I know where the door is, no problem, the obviously hugh amount of time and effort you have put into this world are not, and should not be scoffed at. That said, I also feel my gaming experience lends some small weight to my opinion. (Very small, but measurable.)

Honestly, this is a fun world to game in, but I am always looking for a wolrd I can be a part of. I think we all are.

In addition, (and again) I know I do not know what is out there, HOWEVER, if the things these characters could do were only available at these other locations, they would be there more. I am certain you have put crafting halls all over the place, I trust you on that, really, I do. What I was suggesting that IF it is possible (I know zip about script, so maybe it's not), that the crafting locations in the starting area are limited such that anyone who was really good could get only minor use from them, for example the forges in Styne can only work copper and bronze or some such.

As to the other point, straight fact, 1 zombie warrior (which I kill without a chance of being damaged) is currently worth about 94 experience. Two levels ago they were almost 150 a pop. In my experience, that is prime exp for a monster that's dangerous, much less no threat at all.

The wererats, which are immune to normal weapons, are not a serious threat, normally, but I do need to keep heals on hand. I get EIGHT exp. TEN of them are not equal to one zombie.

I am not complaining, but honestly, any low level characters that AREN'T lined up hoping for a shot at a zombie or two is... well let us say rare, and be done with it.

Finally I would like to state FOR the record that Hanah IS a bonified goddess, attested to by the fact that she HAS a follower (all hail Hanah) and nothing she can say can make that go away, so nyaa...

hehehe...

[Vugor]

I would like to think that most high levelcharacters try to step out of teh way from young ones trying to hone thieir skills. I for one generally do one of the following depending on my rush at the time: Wait and watch, preparing to help the young one with a health kit if it looks like they may go under OR blow on by avoiding the situation altogether.

What I do notice myself dong from time to time is clearing out hinderance creatures simply because they make it hard to get to an exit - it takes less time to kill 5 zombies than to work a path around them. I try not to do this if I see others around, but have on frequent occasion. Perhaps I will revise that behavior a bit in light of your post here.

BTW, Hanah may not be a goddess, but she is as close as Vugor knows

[Makzimia]

Lazarus, what we have here is expectations based on ideas that are good but not possible to fix for me! scripts are not what I do. I am a creator of areas, NPC's conversations/quests and pretty darn adept at getting some things in that seem right and then getting either my wife ( when she has time) or Nat to make them work occasionally (when he has time) if I can't make it work. The world has as much work done in that direction as I can go with, all players are capable of getting levels very fast that is what most players want. They then settle down after a bit and RP happens. What tends to happen is those that don't go out with higher level PC's end up feeling left out I guess, and there really is nothing I can do about peoples personal social skills, not meant to include you BTW as you obviously found Hanah. Anyway, Wererats must be nerfed in someway that I need to check, they came I think out of a MOD I used to run, and the guy that ran it had all kinds of strange things, they are actually set to give more XP than the Zombies, so I will look at whether he nerfed their CR, if not then it is a bioware bug, I agree they are hard to hit.

There is only so much one can do for players, an old addage come to mind here, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. There are SO many areas that players can go, if they are the sort that runs everywhere, and trust me that covers about 98% of you, then yes, you will have a hard life on Fredian, because unlike on other worlds, my MOB's don't suddenly appear in front of you, they are hidden most times in groves, behind trees, in cliff gaps etc etc, I tried VERY hard to make all that realistic as possible. And while I do value players ideas and comments on things, a lot of players have not had a good grounding on other servers that ignore all sorts of possibilities in giving information for starters to players, journal use on log in, server messages at log in. And yes I would love to add a bulletin board system of sorts in game, and maybe when Nat has had time to do what is currently on his plate, we can look at it. No one else can do this stuff as that would need to be persistent. I spend more time educating players on reading their journal than just about anything else. Exploring, talking to NPC's all things a lot do not seem used to from other places, I know, I ran a server for someone else for 8 mths, when I first joined it, it was useless to go almost anywhere and talk to any NPC's nothing there. That is pretty common. Talk to all NPC's most have at least something to say, some give tips, some give quests, others just won't give you anything but a hearty cheer. *sighs* I am not god, I am one man, and I am trying the best I can, and I do appreciate the thanks and cheers I have recieved for what I have done so far, anything more that I can do, as I go, I promise I will. I just have to rely on the grace and time of others for the more complex ideas to be put into fruitition, and games always seem to be in hypermode. I apologise if this offends in anyway, I am tired, it is early morning and I am feeling a little overwhelmed.

Makz.

[Vugor]

That was the one thing I was concerned about in this 'Suggestions and Comments' forum. Makz as you are a very responsive and responsible DM, it is not surprised that you would feel overwhelmed and an urge to respond in some fasion to what every person (genious and fool alike) requests - even to tell them why you are not doing something with a full explaination of why.

I have a suggestion for you with reguard to this. I do not think that most of our suggestions / requests (my own definately included) are that important. To that end, I do not believe that most of them require lengthy explainations of why the answer is 'no'. Further, I dont think that you need to feel that any requests you do agree to need to have any fast implementation. There is NO WAY you could keep up with that and all of us out here realize that.

One last thing: You might want to consider leaving a person that can speak in your stead here on the forums for common issues that re-arise every so often, so as not to have to reexplain why you chose or have to do somethine one way or another.

Just a suggestion (so discard it already and move on ;D)

[Makzimia]

Is that an offer Vugor?

Makz.

[Lazarus]

No offense taken... I don't expect miracles, I just don't know what's possible, it just doesn't seem too much to ask that the zombies not be right in the doorway...

As to Vugor, I am accusing no one of doing this on purpose (even though I know 2 players who have, I'm not gonna start name calling 0 It's just that the location makes it almost impossible for your characters to NOT slay these creatures as you run by.

Once the exp. thing gets fixed though, it (hopefully) won't be such an issue, as the creatures in question will no longer be so highly soughjt after as training bait...

All Hail Hanah...
Seig Heil Hanah...
Hosanna, heysanna, Hanah Hanah hey...
Hanah Uber Alles
Hanah Macht Frei
hehehe...
(bet no one gets that LAST reference)
(And not so many will get the one before it... hehehe...)

[Hanah]

Wow Lazarus... way to kill Hanah's good girl image by invoking such horrible phrases! Keep this up and I'll have to sic the Hanah Legal Defense on you:-)

Might I suggest your invocations involve pretty flowers, fluffy bunnies and gumdrops in the future? A little less on the 'horrors of war' and a little more on the 'life is a beautiful dream' angle please.... nothing like linking Auschwitz to someone to make them seem all pure and innocent you know!

See you server-side soon Lazarus.... :-)

[Lazarus]

I should have known the GREAT ONE would get the refrence... silly me.. okay from now on, only Vorpal Bunnies, Poppies, and flying monkeys... oops, I meant magic dream powder... yeah...

Lazarus

(All Hail Hanah... without her, we wouldn't have Yogi Bear ya know...)

[Vugor]

This thread is getting complicated

Lazerus: I was hoping you wern't running int people doing it on purpose (soory to here about those 2) and I know what you mean about the locale I dunno, they gotta come from somewhere and people are everywhere.

Makz: Volenteer? Egads, if I were to do it in character it would be even better. Frankly I thought you would dismiss it anyway. Im not saying you are a control freak, but you do obviously like to have a hands on approach to all things Fredian. Perhaps we could coerce Silentus to help if you actually like the idea...

Hanah: I'm to close to Vugor in nature to manage any great historical or literary repartee to give you to chew on. Probably could quote ya some of Fight Club if you wanted - hehe. ::)You love the attention, face it! You wouldnt reply if you didn't - vanity is a virtue isnt it? (Hope I didnt make Hanah cry )

[Hanah]

*waves white flag at Lazarus and Vugor*

Gentlemen I surrender.... I can't stand any longer in the face of this onslaught! Just go easy on the defeated, 'kay?

[Lazarus]

Aha!! Hanah admits her own wonderfulness... victory...

I have another question... I don't quite get the Fredian phgilosophy...is it Fred and Ethel? Is it Fred and Barny? I thought it might be short for Freudian, but I have found no excess of phallic symbols in the world, so that's out... I'm confoozled...

[addicted2rpg]

My super-secret PC has had a very challenging subrace and I managed to play it a lot of levels over the course of 4 logins with a total playing time of maybe 12 hours. Admittedly, I do know the ins and outs of the game a lot. Regardless, explorer is my playstyle the most, above roleplayer, above actiongamer, above all. I'm mostly an explorer who runs around sticking flags in new mountains. I've found I did not have very much trouble with high level characters. So... where was I... and where are you?

Me:
* lizardmen west of whillem (levels 2-3)
* quests
* kobold caves
* sewers

You:
<quote>
With this imbalance, everyone is ALWAYS trying to hunt the zombies warriors, and their buddies... heck they arer worth double what I get for a phase spider or a gnoll mage...
</quote>
(among them): zombie warriors in inner styne. Sounds like a byway to me Same with the dungeons, and the ever popular Wayne.

Yet, did you know.... Bugbears in Androg's lair in the sewers beneath Styne Harbor give nearly the same amount of XP as a zombie warrior, have a lightning fast respawns -- nobody is ever down there -- and to top it off, you don't have to wait till its night.

I was in the crypts in of Styne Village and got killed by some liches a high level player spawned and never cleaned up. My response? I respawned and kept on plugging away.

Did you know back when Makz had a lot of Cox-Cable problems, warped killed my character most unfairly during unholy lag at least over 7 times? Didn't seem to stop me from being the second player ever to hit 20 (max level at the time), and a half-celestial to boot. I never even asked for a refund. The truth about Isle of Fredian is it has a low respawn penalty and a high XP rating. This is its strength. Please never ask to lower the XP bar. That will only bring on power players. Contrary to popular belief, low spawns and high XP facilitate roleplaying, make action gaming and exploring more fun, and reduce lag. Makz is truly a genius on his decision to do this. I saw a server somewhere else that did the same thing, and later on they increased spawns and reduced XP. It fell apart.

I still like the idea of decentralizing the players though, even if for a different reason.