Please dont hurt me just suggestions

[kline]

Ok here it goes I have put some thought into this and here are some things that I would like done(all just suggestions so bare with me here).....Please hold all stonings and suggestions if you have not been here long or have no idea about what I am talking about.....
Ok first things first I would like the church in West styne turned to no PVP,(hold stoning please continue to read) This would keep people from killing someone that has just respawned in the church and give the person that just died some time to prepare themselfs for anything else.// role play reason the gods came down and protected the church so that noone could hurt anouther person in the church.
Second I would like the spawn point or starting point for the server moved into the church in west styne. This area being no PVP will still keep people safe from harm so they are safe and get there barrings// Rodo I would like changed in the church to do something alittle more helpful. Like giving directions and helping out the new people here with a little info on where some things are.
Third I would like the no PVP setting takin off all the other areas of the map. this includes crafting halls.// Role play reasons (I cant name them all) but lets start here the gods would not come down and place a protection like this for places like craft halls and west styne. Here is what I suggest instead make west styne and all other areas that are now no PVP and make them dead magic areas. This will still keep the area of effect spells from killing them newbs that happen to be walking by in a big fight. Also keeping the areas relativly safe. ((MAN I HATE NO PVP))
Forth a subduel system would be great but lets not go there that is a little bit more difficult to impliment.

The crafting system I know Makz dont hurt me. But it still does need help. OK I am tired now of mages being so weak. Please take the AOC and move the magic damage reduction to a 8... Anouther thing I would like to see is the spot on the helmet of truth moved down to a 15, it already has true seeing three times a day that should be enough.... I would also like to see the helmet of the gargoles changed to a good helmet so that more people will wear to differt helmet in different situations. THe helmet of Gargoles I would like to see something like this immune to knockdown, AC + 10 defection, haste, and +5 to fort saves, how about that for a helmet. The ultamate aqua belt I would take the sonic immunity off that belt all together.((are Bards not weak enough already please))
I know there is allot more I have to say than this but here is just a few suggestions I think are most important.... OK throw your stones...

[Cella]

No stones should ever be thrown for suggestions...You have some really good points in my opinion...Especially the No PvP in West Styne being removed....The spawn point to Temple is good as it is an obvious IC safe haven....As for AoC...I agree although as a mage character, I actually like the thought of IGMS tamed...It makes you think more about other spells.

If you get butchered for these comments, then this server will drop in my estimations..but I doubt that will happen..as I also doubt your suggestions will ever happen.

Lanah

[TheNaga]

I mentioned something about adding a sub-dual script to makz when I first joined this server I can't really remember his reply but I think it was somewhere along the lines of having to re-script alot of things.

Though I still think a sub-dual script is well worth investing in you cold also have it so that in west styne you are auto-maticly on sub-dual mode ((i.e you only knock the person out and not actualy kill them)) then you would'nt even have to worry about those nasty area of affect spells killing the newbies. I kinda agree about the no pvp I find it very irritating that people can mock you in a no-pvp zone because your different (in my case palemaster) and you can't hit or harm them in anyway due to pvp even though you have ic reasons to do it. And if you ask them in most cases to step outside of this area ((which makes no real sence)) to say that and there to chicken to take whats coming to em in most cases
<Edit: More added>

[JoScMa]

Like Fizz said, I doubt your ideas will come into fruition. It doesn't matter if the starting point is in West Styne or the temple. West Styne will still remain a large traffic zone for low levels and high levels alike. We tried making Castille a good meeting point for players, but that died rather quickly.

That is one reason why West Styne became No PvP. The other being is that some people didn't like the constant fighting that occured in West Styne before it became No PvP.

[Phoenix]

OK, I agree with most of the things on this list as something we should seriously consider. There is no reason many of these things couldn't/shouldn't be looked at. And certianly no reasont to think none will happen.

The one thing I don't agree with is noPvP in the crafting halls, this is to lessen the AOE spells that put out forges. Sure you can still cast them in there and put the forges out, but it wouldn't be because of a fight. They should stay noPvP.

Temple as noPvP, yep I'm on with that one. Will also prevent the rare PKer standing at the respawn point. No reason to have fights in the area where a level 1 might respawn. This is related to the move of the spawning point, but seperate.

W. Styne as noPvP, I don't like it that much either. It's kinda frustrating to see people take advantage of it too, kinda hard to RP a though evil type when characters who could otherwise get away with it are prodding you *because* they are in a noPvP. If my character was in a PvP area, a warning would go out, then death, it's just part of the character. It's really frustrating to see people take advantage of the 'magic area'. This has happened to me more than once, so I'm sure others have run into this as well. When we turned it on, we knew this discussion would come back and here it is.

If W. Styne is going to be noPvP then sure, move the spawning point to the now noPvP temple.

Dead magic areas... uhh ok, so you want to make crafting halls and W. Styne the dead mage areas? Maybe hang their bodies from the tree while your at it?
It would really, really suck to be a caster, crafting, and have a couple of people jump you. Would suck bad. Same with W. Styne, sitting at the tree having a chat, BLAM, some fighter comes up and waylay's you. Major suckage... I'm ok with dead magic areas, but NOT in traffic areas. It should be something a mage fears to enter, so don't make mages fear W. Styne and crafting.

Reduce AOC magic resist to 8. YES! Its a minor change, but helps balance things ohh so much. 10 doesn't seem much, but right now it's really killing the missle storm spells. Sure they are tought spells, but taking 200 points of damage away is pretty tough. Taking the 10 to and 8 means the missle storms are doing 80 damage (instead of the 40 it currently does). That's less than other AOE spells like horrid wilting, firebrand, max chain lighting or max ice storm. It wouldn't upset the balance, but would help the arcane casters, after all, how many people have built a wizard/sorc. since Phoenix? There is a reason I could count them on 1 hand, but RDDs are everywhere...

Reduce spot on truth helm. Meh, I think 20 is a better number, if it needs to be touched at all. We talked about this, and at 25, only a character who maxes spot AND has a high wisdom still will not spot a rogue who maxes hide and has a high dex. Anyone who doesn't max spot or have a REAL high wisdom won't spot the dedicated rogue, even with +25. Your right about the TS 3/day, that's enough to spot when needed anyway.

Helm of Gargoyles, I would love to see an alternate to the truth helm. I hate knowing that EVERY character has the same thing on, even if we can make it look different. Any high level helm must have immune to mind though, otherwise no one will choose it. Otherwise I like what your getting at. It would also need something else to make it a high level item, but an alternative helm would be nice.

Aqua belt, YES remove the 75% sonic immunity (I thought this type of immunity didn't work anyways, like the 25% magic immunity the old, old, AOCs had). But if it does, kill it. Bards need everything we can do to help them anyways.

Subduel is worth looking at. Not real high on my list personally, but it would be nice.

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

... I think the world is fine as it is except the lack of "magic circle against alignment" bug and the fact I don't have my sexy temple ^ ^

Really, AOC isn't the biggest deal, Ahlin Goodman has truth and that and still gets raped, it's the other items that do a lot of the work.

[MitzaVolchenko]

Wow...lot to read...

I think our No PVP areas, etc are fine as is. I don't think we need a subdual damage system. RP works fine in most cases. As for the talk smack and then refuse to leave town issue, it is the perogative of every player to determine whether or not they wish to engage in PVP activities.

As for the Temple being No PVP, if I am on as a DM, it is. Zacho doesn't allow bloodshed in his Temple.

The equipment/item issues are long running debates. I don't have any opinion on most of them because as I am always saying numbers and cleverness beat uber anyday, and that includes items as well as builds.

[Hanah]

Assuming that the people who will discuss this with you will lose their tempers is probably not a good way to start off... it sets a pall over the rest of the discussion.

As a 'role player' I have tried to respect the fact that people are here for different reasons. One is crafting, one is PvP/hack and slash. Now, RP by its nature rarely limits ones' ability to craft or pursue PvP. The same can be said for crafting; it isn't likely to interfere with your RP or your PvP activities (unless you've become hooked on it and well, then, you should seek help:-) ). On the other hand, being caught in the crossfire of PvP/hack and slash or in the worst case scenario, PK, *does* hinder ones' choice to RP or craft. In my opinion, the biggest problem with West Styne being full PvP was not for the people who were interested in the PvP, it was for those who were not.

Please do not think I am seperating these three forms of activity on Fredian. They are linked. However, what one person is currently interested in doing is not always what another person is currently interested in, and since PvP activities can *alter* what another person is doing it is only courteous to avoid impinging on their activities. If someone wants to throw down the gloves with you, a no PvP zone will not affect this. We do have a rule to reflect this form of courtesy, one that is rarely acknowledged:

8. COURTESY: If a group of players is in Role Play or involved in a group fight, someone entering their area should give them priority as a courtesy and leave, unless invited to join.

Now clearly in 99% of situations it is hard to enforce a rule like this. It is a guideline of respectful conduct. But I believe that no PvP in West Styne and crafting halls is an important implementation of this rule. As a final note, crafting halls were made no PvP for the reason that people were irresponsible with them... I don't think the status of crafting halls needs to even be addressed.

Hanah

[W(ie-ei)rdness]

I agree... I would only nerf items anything or create subdual damage if the world went mad and became a action server, not a RP server. Besides, whenever I get killed by a player or if anything kills me in a populated area, 99% of the time I will be ressed in courtesy, so really, we don't have much to worry about.

*Puts away hurting stick*

[Lumix]

*slaps forhead* ... why this again?... I can't believe you guys are upset because someone calls you a name and you can't Hell-Ball them... *sigh* I think you "evil people" need to get more creative... take my little evil man Trashican Mang for example... he's been level 3 for a LONG time, yet he creates more trouble than he is worth even in West Styne! I suggest having fun RP wise instead of PVP... There are plenty of RP props (Alchamist Fire, Tanglefoot bags, Chocking Powder, Caltrops, Fire Bombs, etc)... Go blow up the Bank or something! Get out and about and create news elsewhere, don't just sulk in WS all the time... gees... This is the generation of No-Creativity I swear!

I said it once and I'll say it a houndred times... West Styne is where people log in, there is NO excuse for bloodshed apon entry. Speaking of which, a SLAP ON THE HAND goes to certain DM's that think its amusing to use West Styne as thier "playground"... Move it to Castille People *Lumix points to portrait next to this message*

As far as the dispelling of magic etc... Mackz has his reasons... Trust the man. He is a very smart guy and watches things very closely, he'll change things when he feels we're "mature enough" to handle it.

And regarding the temples... ehh... I have seen killers come to justice in Temples before... plus you can still get away or paige a DM if someone is PK'ing you at the spawn point. Heck, Trashi took on Hilli once and won! (after respawning about 45 times). Like Mitza said "numbers and cleverness beat uber anyday"

Happy brain-storming guys... Im sure you can come up with something new.

Cheers,
Lumix

[addicted2rpg]

You have given me a few ideas. For when we get out of maintenance I got some ideas for the coliseum but that is a pandora's box for next month

Two really good suggestions in that:
1. Make Rodo more useful
2. NoPvp the temple of tyr.

Here is some rationale of why we are doing the things we are currently doing them. It is just to help you (and everyone who reads the thread) why things are set up the way they are.

Start point: When Fredian was born, Makz did a very visionary thing. He made an area that was small with a concentration of resources the mayor for info, shops for goods/crafts, and XP (cave next door) on a relatively small map size. He made the inn have quests (Brand wasn't always level 10), put on Hili as an icebreaker, and made it really an ideal entry point. WS also has two area transitions to the north, one to the south, one to the west, and one to the east. That is five ways to go, each to also very introductory areas. On some servers you start off and you're wandering around for far too long to find your starting stuff.

So what I am saying is, West Styne has been very well groomed from its very beginning to be a strong starting point. What if someone ignores Rodo, goes out the temple, decides to head NORTH, and gets killed by a zombie without having been able to buy their gear first? I mean it sounds lame, but wouldn't it be cooler to have a fully explored map in the beginning with waypoints telling you where the goods are, allow you to get setup, and work out from there? Maybe meet Hili, get your first level free, etc..

Craft areas: you don't want to let them work in peace? They have to look over their shoulder to see if Ventrick is in their pockets or Sir Damien in their face? From an RP point of view, it does make sense. I would consider it. I can see the first forge (the one in WS) being no-pvp. Other forges? Hmm, it is an interesting call. I don't know the extent of impact that would have. We are a full pvp server, and nopvp has been a tool to control certain things, and as long as those controls are not compromised, it may make sense to stay consistent with a full pvp philosophy. I'd really have to see what Makz thinks about this one.

The arena submitted by dauntless has limited value in my opinion. Its a place to brawl and get a free raise, but it does not do score keeping, elevated spectations, battle queues, code controlled preliminary buff periods, etc.. a sub-duEL system is interesting. I'll take notes on the issues I run into running the Castille Tournament and see if I can apply what I learn in making a real arena to blow the rest away. The only thing that might get in the way (as in push it out really far) is RCS and server portaling

[Hanah]

*pours Lumix a beer*

Hanah
... okay maybe it's a little early

[JoScMa]

Phoenix said:

W. Styne as noPvP, I don't like it that much either. It's kinda frustrating to see people take advantage of it too, kinda hard to RP a though evil type when characters who could otherwise get away with it are prodding you *because* they are in a noPvP. If my character was in a PvP area, a warning would go out, then death, it's just part of the character. It's really frustrating to see people take advantage of the 'magic area'.

And it got really fustrating prior to the PvP change in West Styne from seeing the constant amount of chaos that ensued. That was what prompted Makzimia to change it to NoPvP. Personally, I don't mind PvP every now and then, but I got really tired of fighting all the time in West Styne rather than RP'ing.

Dead magic areas... uhh ok, so you want to make crafting halls and W. Styne the dead mage areas? Maybe hang their bodies from the tree while your at it?
It would really, really suck to be a caster, crafting, and have a couple of people jump you. Would suck bad. Same with W. Styne, sitting at the tree having a chat, BLAM, some fighter comes up and waylay's you. Major suckage... I'm ok with dead magic areas, but NOT in traffic areas. It should be something a mage fears to enter, so don't make mages fear W. Styne and crafting.

The blacksmith shop became a dead magic zone because of the idiots who cannot stop putting out the forges. It only takes one bad apple to ruin it for all you know.

Helm of Gargoyles, I would love to see an alternate to the truth helm. I hate knowing that EVERY character has the same thing on, even if we can make it look different. Any high level helm must have immune to mind though, otherwise no one will choose it. Otherwise I like what your getting at. It would also need something else to make it a high level item, but an alternative helm would be nice.

I have to agree Helm of the Gargoyle could use a revision to rival the Truth Helm, but not enough to make everyone suddenly use Garygoyle helm and throw away the Truth Helm. Variety is always nice.

[Phoenix]

I can't believe you guys are upset because someone calls you a name and you can't Hell-Ball them...

Why? Because we HAVE to make characters that accept being taunted? I don't think so, even the knights lay the smack down on people who talk trash. The fact that people USE the noPvP area as an excuse is worse. People know they are invinsible there, and it leads to poor RP.

I said it once and I'll say it a houndred times... West Styne is where people log in, there is NO excuse for bloodshed apon entry.

Yes but he's suggesting we move the starting point as well... There is a basic problem in a full PvP environment where the main gathering area isn't PvP, namely consistant RP. EX. one of my characters is on a kill on sight status with another character (they know about this). Now if I run into them in W. Styne, should I just ask them to leave so I can jump them?

About Castille, it's a ghost town. I tried, I spent lots of time wandering the city, hanging out at the fountian, just to get more traffic there. It just didn't happen...

And it got really fustrating prior to the PvP change in West Styne from seeing the constant amount of chaos that ensued. That was what prompted Makzimia to change it to NoPvP. Personally, I don't mind PvP every now and then, but I got really tired of fighting all the time in West Styne rather than RP'ing.

I agree, there were issues before, I was for changing W. Styne to noPvP then. But now I see as many problems with RP with noPvP. So what's the balance?

When the setting for noPvP was turned on in W. Styne, the main arguments (2) were low level characters entering the server getting killed. This could be resolved by moving the spawning portal to the temple. The second, was fostering new players, well the server is full, I'm not sure that's a big concern anymore, until a bigger fix is in (server portaling or whatever).

[Makzimia]

First of, why is it I get this please don't hurt me bit?? LOL...

Ok, to address some of the issues, I am yielding to the following :-

1. Change to Truth helm to bring spot to +15

2. Change to Gargoyle, not sure yet, but will look into it, I had thought I had recently changed it actually, and not posted perhaps its change

3. Make Temple of Tyr No-PvP, it will not EVER become arrival point, for the reason addicted eloquently pointed out, I made what I made the way I did for VERY good reason, and it works

4. Change AOC to +5 immunity instead of +10, there is no 8

5. Change to Ultimate aqua belt.

That's it live with it

Makz.