Player Role Play expectations.

[Makzimia]

I am concerned somewhat by an incident that occured today between two of my longer standing players. I am interested to know what players think constitutes correct RP. In this case a Chaotic Evil was involved in the fight decided he wanted the other players swords, both level 20's and he succeeded in getting them, but under strained expectations. Do I need to make a rule on this also? perhaps if you disarm someone and decide you want their weapons, D20 roll? I am so upset by what I had to deal with.

Come on people, are we all going to just play NG? or LG? There are so many players on who are nice... and I am glad you are nice to me, and to most of the other players most of the time... but when RP comes in.... are we only going for NG or LG? or do people want variety?? help me out here.

I am not keen obviously to have low level players being constantly picked on by higher level evils, but where do we all want the line drawn? and in what manner???

Makz.

[Vugor]

I'll be happy to voice an opinion here. I primarily play a NG and absolutely love the fact that there are some unsavory characters out there. Whats more, I think that if a player kills another, the winner has dibs on whatever he wants. I HATE player killer sites though - they usually quickly digress to grudge matches with no real point. What makes it all good here is that we focus on RP and we have the wonderful aspect of having Guilds and alliences. These help protect the unseasoned and more innocent. Those that are known to commit evil acts will likely end up on the recieving end of justice for those actions.

To me this whole scenario should not involve Makz at all - it is all about RP. The only instance I feel Makz should need to get in it is if a player feels that the other is not RP but its taking out some personal grudge (or a grudge against another character run by the same player).

End result for me: If it is in character - do it, whatever it is.

[MysaidesCaldier]

I think that first of all Chaotic evil has a bad wrap on Fredia....The Thieves are going to be thrown into prison because of a little pick pocket and the murderers have roaming bands of vigilantes hunting them like some freak fox hunt...
Evil is that which makes good good. So in that vein a evil person causes strife betrayal and intrigue very important rp elements. I will say this though for all the evil that is just outwardly decadent; a truely well played Chaotic Evil character would seem like a saint to most people and a repentant sinner to the wise. Evil is good....good for business good for all!
The Despised And Reviled Mysaides Mein

[addicted2rpg]

I have had some experience RPing "the bad guys." In drama or theatre, when they do fight scenes, usually the victim has control -- this is why you often see people grasping their own necks during choke scenes. They make out like they are trying to pry it loose, but in fact, they are controlling the motion of the other person's arms.

I think like theatre, there are some principles in RP people should live up to when playing an evil alignment.
1. Always leave your victim a way out, preferably without leaving them degraded or with injured pride.
2. Don't pursue.

Awhile back I did a rogue who liked to charge "Road Taxes" on various roads. He would jump out and threaten the player that if they don't pay for passage, they could be harmed. I had premeditated that if the person tried to run the blockade, I would just let them go (Don't Pursue). Essentially, the threat is hollow.

Other outs:
Turn back, use another path.
Pay the fee (usually ridiculously low, like 5 gold or something most players would laugh at).

It also shows you are obviously RPing because jumping out and asking for 100k shows your character's genuine interest in theft. A 5 gold toll "or else" sounds like you are obviously putting something on. Make sure you know that the other perosn understands what roleplaying is, and definitely not to anyone new to the game. Pulling this on one of the regulars, for example.

Think its too soft not to start a fight? Out of at least 7 people "held up", I have found one who paid and one who turned back in my NWN experience. The other 5 ATTACKED. So in effect, I, the evil player, is in fact the defender. Never initiate violence, even if you threaten to. Its pretty easy to provoke a fight without really putting one on.

I have found that premeditation in your actions is best. Don't do "evil" stuff on the fly. It should be a kind of thing you could write down and think out -- not saying you have to write it down, but it has be communicatable and complete. For dialogue, generally cynical, condescending, or having low respect for others will pass off an evil char fairly well, but becareful people don't take this OOC or they will think you are just a jerk instead of RPing one. What I do is let the other person initiate dialogue first and make sure they are in IC and willing to roleplay, then I follow suit, when playing an evil character. When doing the evil trash talk thing, I tend to exaggerate it larger than life so it becomes obvious. Not: "You tree hugging whelp." But: "Druids... all of them are tree hugging whelps. Feh."

Everyone has their own way. That is something I like to do. Food for thought. A lot of other ways out there. Hope it helps. The two golden rules should be the same though:
1. A way out. Forcing someone to degrade themselves in backing down is not considered a way out.
2. Don't pursue.

[wingstriker]

hmmm with out getting into a long letter about evil and good I just want to say evil is needed as stated above but.. In NWN it seems many take evil to mean KILL and be vulgar or just go around acting crazy. Evil is what the populace says it is or the vast majority.
ok with that said in a game it is much harder to police all the time between two players that are RP . Table top D&D you have the DM referee the encounter between the two so the victim has that out like stated above and the attacker also has a chance to pull off what it is he is trying to do either robbery or murder. Sorry to say but in the game most would just fight it out. I think for a good evil event to take place a DM would have to be looking in and use a light hand to effect control with out controlling the event. To allow that good RP to happen.

sounds kind of funny if a man jumps out on another and demands his goods or his life. a fight breaks out with the attacking PC killing the unknown victim with shear number of damage attacks than how is he to get his goods? The dead player would have to be raised from the dead and hand over his stuff to the winner. lol right I guess I dont see that happening but that is what would happen right? the attacker would be able to pick the victim clean!!

now the victim wouldn’t be able to take revenge on that player if he is RPing it right for he didnt know his name ( but game shows it to you) or where he is from. I know how I would RP it but the issue is MOST EVIL players NOT ALL just kill for the sake that they can. and call it just being evil. I dont agree with this for good kills also.

I dont know the answer but the server would be very boring if evil is not allowed. though I dont think that is where this is going. maybe if we have evil PC's contact a DM if possible and they have to state what it is they want to do before doing it to another player or what they want to gain. That way if they want that fancy flame sword the fighter has been waving around and succeeds in killing that said fighter the DM can effect the taking of that sword giving it to the winner or something like that . This could also bring up other RP Great options for that fighter could get a note slipped to him saying someone is out to get him or someone tells him from a city that some thief has been asking questions about his sword or other things he is carrying. Yeah that would be Great and would make the fighter PC a little worried and apprehensive , wouldn’t it.

I just dont want to see the server come to people runing around saying they are evil and that gives them the right to kill who ever they please.

[addicted2rpg]

Do not fear. We frown on people selecting an evil alignment and then go PK on people and suddenly bust out a half-medieval sentence and say "it was all in RP".

To be honest, I spend most of my time writing new things in the toolset for Makzimia, writing new quests, or logged into a room with no doors answering tells and questions. On rare ocassions, I might follow a group or spawn them something, but I havn't really done much of that in awhile.

What I mean by this is, there is nothing in the above that says anything about RP policing Don't count on it anytime soon. Regardless, we understand the difference between genuine evil and "lets g0 ev1l d00dz and kI11'em ALL." I don't think it will become a serious problem on IoF.

[wingstriker]

addicted2rpg: ;D from the quality of players I have already run into with being back on this server for only a week it shouldnt be a problem. *fingers crossed*

Yes I know you guys sorry and girls are hard at work with the core of the world and wouldnt have the time to just tweak here or chat there. What you do is by far more than many worlds out there.

[Al'verith]

Going to start out my posts by saying addicted2rpgs' comments, in my opinion, summarize what it means to roleplay evil.

Exaggerate your speechs, but not your actions, I think.

Ex: A rogue, hidden, nudges up to you, sifts through your pockets, and manages to "aquire" a magical amulet you have in your keeping. The thief then disappears into the crowd. - An appropriate behavior for a chaotic (out for profit) rogue, I'd say.

Ex #2: A rogue, hidden, nudges up to you, sifts through your pockets, and aquires another item of value. He then continues to stand there behind you while you converse with your friends, removing item after item until you are left naked in the street ;D, still without a clue. - This is the extreme, just like charging a 10,000 gold road tax.

There could be similar examples for disarming, murdering, and every other vice under the sun.

So, as a summary, even as your favorite character is some dastardly evil half-fiend from the inner pits of hell, give a little in your deeds. Doing it once is usually all it takes, if you exaggerate and plan ahead : ).

[Sledge]

There comes into play another ugly head. Power playing which is starting to show it's ugly head. Higher level characters gathering friends and pushing thier levels along with them with the sole purpose of being able to controll others. A group so impossibly of mixed classes its hard to understand what they would see in each other game wise. Using the ' Tell ' channel to gather friends if picked on.

I've been on a power play server and that is why I'm here as are many others.

I'd love to see a group of thieves do this, or a coven of witches and any other number of possibilties. That would make for a very interesting amount of play. But that is not what is happening here.

I saw a server with perma death and the only way you could be raised was by a cleric or deity both of which were run by the DM. It was wonderful for me but didn't allow all styles of play which I feel is nessessary for everyone to enjoy this game.

Everyone should be allowed to have fun here, except those not allowing others to do the same. I'm sure that is the intent. To have fun.

*sorry for venting but I love this server.

Oh...and I'd also like to see a 40th level farmer come out and charge the person killing his chickens or else, he he. " That dinner just cost ya 2 gold ".

What do I think? Even evil will have to fight alongside good, for war is coming and it cares not.

.

.

[Makzimia]

Thank you Sledge, your input as always is appreciated and more poignant as a long standing member of our community. I have noticed of late, more due to the new blood than old, that there is becoming certain groups that feel the need to trample others. Let me make this clear, I have NO problem with mass banning certain players if I recieve viable/reliable complaints about them. Thus far other than the fracus I saw in West Styne 2 nights ago, Fredian has not really suffered any of these things. I like to think I am fair in my rulings, and that I pay attention as much as possible to each and every one of you. That is why I try to spread my time evenly between development and being on.

We have had one time of this before, and those that were around then know whom I am speaking of and that I did ban them. People Fredian is about having fun, don't spoil others fun! and if you see someone you do not know when passing to and thro in West Styne in particular, stop and say hello.

Thanks,

Makz.

[MitzaVolchenko]

I love playing evil characters, so why am I not playing one now? With the proliferation of good and the responses I have seen from the few people that have fallen victim, I do not find that most people are willing to RP the consequences.

ie, I am playing a CE merc fighter. I beat you to a bloody pulp in a quiet cave, say in the pits of despair, and proclaim that I am taking everything and leaving your corpse. This is not a nice thing to do, but I have no conscience and from an OOC point of view, we are both 10th level (silly mage, you shouldn't be out here all alone to mine that mystic ore). Two things should happen at this point. First, the mage hands over his entire inventory. Second, the mage rolls his 20-sided die to see if he even saw my face to remember me later as I leapt from the crevice behind the ore while he was bending down to pick some up. It is honor code that the mage actually hands everything over. Iti is honor code that he RP's that he does or does not remember me, and it is honor code that he does not use my name as there is no Tab key in real life to hover people's names over their heads. Now we move to fall out, I took the mage's wand, his boots, his jewelry...left the robe as it was badly damaged, his nifty mage sword, etc. I decide that I like his helm and am wearing it around town when he comes running in his torn and bloody robe from the Temple. Even if he failed to know I kille dhim, he still may see his helm, that he madehimself from mystic ore antd demand to know where I got it...from there the RP is on. Now if I am not displaying any of his stuff, he still has the option of telling everyone what happened to the best of his recall, nad hoping that someone saw me running from the cave (and if I pass osmeone it is my honor code to tell them that I am splattered with blood and carrying extra packs).

In my mind the above scenario sounds like fun for both parties. I don't mind being a victim when I do something stupid or get caught with my armor down. I also don't mind being the evil pregnant dog that kills others...hey I've seen that same mage hand out piles of 50k gold to new folks, if he is so rich, why not just help myself?

*grins* Long post to say one thing, Evil is Good, but everyone has to play by the honor system when it comes to some things as there is no 'loot corpse' option for the average character.

[Phoenix]

I'm a little confused here. Did he disarm (feat) the person to get their weapons? If he did, I feel the weapons are lost to the owner. I think of disarm no different the PP. If someone abuses it, it's a DM issue leading to banning if warrented. Otherwise the original owner needs to report a theft and that is all RP.

If two people fight and someone loses their weapons it's A-OK by me, as long as it stops there (no griefing, constantly disarming them).

I don't see this as being a DM issue unless it's to the point of griefing.

As far as higher/lower levels goes I try not to pick on people who are 'effortless' unless I know they are epic. I'm 28th but I will RP like normal if I know you are 20th. If I'm 20th and your 12th, your NOT going to be attacked by me.

I'm an evil character, and I find I rarely attack people. In fact the couple of PvPs I have been involved with there was good warning on both sides. If I wanted out I could have, same with them.

If I want to start a fight there are plenty of ways to suck a good person into the conflict,. That guarantees they wanted to RP and always gives them the option of leaving the situation alone (way out).

If any server rule came out of this it should be a limit on the number of PP/disarms per character (not player) per day. IE you can PP or disarm Phoenix say 5/day, if I bring in Ash, a new 5/day. Maybe 3/day...

EDIT: Oh and there is a small 1/2 dragon clan being brought together, and I don't mean RDDs

EDIT2: I think I RP well, but do you actually expect someone to hand over their EQ after they die? And do you think its poor RP not to? I would rather respawn (RP, my gods save me for a price).

[Silentus]

I dont know this for certain and wont be able to check till I get back online, but I think there are restrictions in how much loot is allowed to be taken from a RPed character kill. Check in the RULES entry in your journal.

BTW, reguardless of what it says in rules, if you kill any character I run, you may strip him bare if it is in character for you - I believe it to be most like real life, and thus am ok with it. I (as a player) will hold no grudge (providing of course it is RPed and non-pk inspired (griefing)). My character will only hold a grude if I make the d20 roll

[Phoenix]

Shame on me, I have not read any rules about handing over EQ after death. Personally I wouldn't ask that of someone I kill, even if it's in my character to do so. In fact, striping you of everything you own IS what my character would do. At best, regardless on the rules (assuming they allow it at all, remember, shame on me for not knowing about this in the first place) I would only take one item as a prize.

My only problem with that action is fun. Is it fun to be striped of everything you own? No. It takes hours upon hours to collect *everything* you wear alone, much less other equipement. But it only takes seconds to get PvP killed. It wouldn't even be fun for me to collect everything.

Now, as soon as I login I'll check the IG books, I figured what was in there was a copy of what is available via the site here. I have never seen a rule on a server for getting EQ off of kills. The idea alone is spinning my head.

[Silentus]

Hehe, it would probably be fun to me - just another goal to get over. I guess it would be less fun if I missed my roll so my characters coulndt bad mouth you (and worse), but what can I say - Im an RP geek