How Important is the Tradeskill System

[NeoTort]

This poll is to see how the genral populas thinks about the crafted items. as you all know Ragabash trading co. has taken the first step in creating a completey player driven economny with there shop in Castille Gates district. Is this something that we are going to have people doing alot. I think all non player shops should be closed except the ones that sell the real basic stuff expect for where you get your rare components and the mage shop for scrolls.

[Valen]

well,

I dont know if the world should have only player driven shops, Ive never thought about it like that however, I think you took a big step in improving the economy.

Now that I think about it...
If player merchants were fair and prices were set...It could be a beautiful thing.....

[Makzimia]

I personally, funny enough, had this thought during a bad nights sleep and dismissed it almost immediately thinking that a lot of players wouldn't like it. It is however, especially with a lot of the new stuff that is craftable, quite feasible. Now I will sit back and see what reaction you get.

Makz.

[Preedy1978]

Hmm...I'm gonna abstain for a while until i think this through...sounds like a good idea...but what about the newbs (ugh hate using that word) that have just arrived and are desperate for a bit of equipment?

I don't know, but well done on opening up your own business Ragabash's!

[Al'verith]

I believe all non-player shops should be closed. This would be a great next step in the evolution of Fredian culture, and would instantly promote tradeskill access to the top of the economy, and really bring a new level of independence and realism to the world. ;D

However, I can think of a few minor problems that would become of it.

*There would suddenly be a small, but growing discrepency between those who had access to the shops before they were closed, and those who did not.

*Several choice items, such as mind spell immunity helms, death/disease immunity helms and belts, resistance to slashing/piercing/bludgening items would be suddenly unavailable except during a treasure find. (Could be a good thing too, though, is it truely possible to find all the nwn standard items during any Fredian treasure run?)

*Weapon/Armor/Various Craftskill balance. This would become a very big issue in some cases, to the point that some might be upset that Weapon A's best crafted form is much worse (elemental bonuses, damage, enhancement) then Weapon B. Not to single anyone out, but I personally know of many Bastard Sword/Katana forms that are superior in every way to, for example, a rapier or longsword maximum crafted form. I have little doubt such things will probably be adjusted more for balance, but maybe until everything is level, there should be some sort of gradually scaled slide into a full player based craft economy.

On the whole, I am entirely for this idea.

[Phoenix]

I'm not voting as none of the answers really fit. I like the non-player shops, I'm wearing some eq. from them now, at 25th level... Crafted items are great, and most people will probably wear crafted items in the long run. But I like the non player shops as supplements, besides you can't always find a crafter when you need something. Very bad if you just lost your sword due to a disarm...

[Druga]

Where would we sell all the excess stuff you make while trying to improve your crafting skills? It would definatly make a dent in the avalible amount of gold, if you could only sell items to another player.

[AvengersWraith]

I think we need more player made items available. As far as selling off excess items for gold and only selling to players, one of these items deserves attention.

If this was reality and we lived on a small chain of islands why would any shop owner buy 1000 iron long swords when he would be lucky to sell 100.

If I chose to, I could make large quantities of expensive items to sell to merchants and reach that 11,000,000 GP limit Mak has in place. As it is, I have almost 2 million and very little to spend it on.

That's economics, we are in a fantasy land and I don't know what all is available from different crafters, the only thorough book at the moment that I know of is for weapons. And tanning, tailoring and armor crafting is in the works. Jewelry crafting, I have a strong sense of rings available but not necklaces from Nias' experience.

I think in the long run when Salandra's Craftables is filled out more, that it should replace non-crafted items currently being sold.

I imagine in the long run that Mak, with help, will have books for tailoring, tanning and all the crafts. Just as anymone can buy (or merely read) the book for weapons, they will be able to do the same for crafted cloaks, robes, helms, etc...

And as far as store fronts go, once a player's character can craft an item he can simply ask the DM to include that item for sale at merchant who sells on commission.

Or they can advertise their wares in the Buy & Sell thread.

Eventually we will hopefully have player based stalls in some common areas. Castille has 3 empty stalls that could be modified for players to use right now.

I think that everything that is standard in NWN right now ought to be craftable in the future unless the item in not wanted in Fredian for balance purposes.

Today, I don't think we are ready to switch, but one of these tomorrows we could be and should.

[addicted2rpg]

Personally, I hate crafts. I let others craft, and I'd rather go explore and treasurehunt and just buy it off them. But before critisizing, if it wasn't for people like me, their work wouldn't be as important (everyone would just make their own stuff).

Player clients are a good thing.

Removing all NPC shops?

1. Newb level shops need to be open.
2. We would need the availability of a crash proof persistant shop that could service high volumes. Believe me, once those NPC stores are gone if people can't find the PC alternative version very fast, they'll just leave. If we are lucky, they may ask around about items to buy. If we are lucky.

Of course, this depends how far "newb" is defined. If +3 or even +5 items are available in stores and the crafters only did the high end stuff, the transition would be easier, otherwise a steady flow of +1, +2, +3, +4, +5 (all the in-between stuff) kind of items need to come out.

[Shwabba]

Sorry to be so blunt, but this is a pretty biased poll. All the answers are basically pro PC shops and the only anti PC shop choice (I hate crafted items, they do nothing for you) is so preposterous as to be laughable. No one is going to choose that because crafted items are obviously more powerful than non-crafted, so to say they do nothing is an outright lie, and just because you don't think PC's should run the entire economy doesn't mean that you "hate" crafted items. Control over the economy and whether someone likes or hates crafted items are two completely different arguments. If there were a "No, I don't think Players should be given complete and utter control over other players through economic means, but I still like the idea of player-run shops", then I would have chosen that one. Having some shops run by PC's that sell PC created items is a great idea, and grats to Neo and Dino for making it a reality. However, I still feel that the number of NPC shops should not be reduced. Before making decisions like this, you can't just say "ooOOOOooo new toy! New toy!" You have to think through all the ramifications and possible consequences that may occur, not just in the present but much further down the road also. Besides, I'm a grumpy old man, and I fear change

Your Geezerly Neighborhood Shwabbaman

"I fear change!" - Grandpa Simpson

[Thara]

Get rid of any items weapons over basic +1 and make it player only, on top off it turn off lvl restrictions....



Another crazy Idea from


Thara

[Thara]

Looked and another thread only sell basic heal items as well, and make raise dead scrolls very expensive....


Guess what now gold matters... but you need to buy something,.... hmm... what could that be?

[AvengersWraith]

The NPC shops can be modified to sell crafted items, the reason to arrange it with the DM (Mak or Addicted) to have items added to an NPC operated store that sells your crafted items.

For Example: Fal Druar can make most weapons through mithral, plus many of the rarer weapons listed in the Weapons of Reknown book plus I am working on jewelry. I tell Mak what all I can make in weapons and jewelry to be avaible in the store. Common items are sold with unlimited availability because I commit to working "x" amount of game hours per week to keep the inventory stocked. I base my prices on how much it cost to build and maintain the shop, pay the NPCs (the stores are currently 24 hour access, although you have to wake the ox seller up if you want an ox at 2300) and plus taxes to the kingdom and a small amount of profit to be banked in my personal scenario.

Another scenario is that several players use the same merchant to sell their items. They each tell the DM (Mak or Addicted) what they can provide and how many hours a week it takes and their items are sold on consignment.

The same basic principles that are currently in use still get used. I make 50 myrkandite katanas to sell to my merchant, there is still only 1 visible after I finish the sale to keep LAG down.

The game mechanics doesn't care if it says "golden circlet" or "crafted mithral helmet for protecting the head", it just takes time to fill out the craftable items which I have read that Mak and Druga are working on regularly and then redoing the shops.

Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it cannot be added if not already in the craftable skills.

[Makzimia]

Before all your fancies take flight, let me state the difficulties in doing this completely. A: all items would need to be covered above +1 by crafted items a LOT of work B: player vendors, whilst part of ATS are buggy, and I am not going to spend time fixing them to put them in at this time, and Salandra has not got the time either, who it would require, or addicted. They just do not work how I would want them to.

Ok with that out of the way, I have spent time on the thought process a few times at least. Ideally, now that I have a better idea of the economy, I will be lowering what a merchant will pay for any item on ALL stores, but they will all buy crafting items which will disappear. I will add crafted items if you all want to be sold by merchants, BUT, I think it is best if players do it, and frankly from what I have seen, there is a player who crafts who can sell to players items pretty well at least 18 hrs a day.

All items in NWN relying on the treasure spawn system in NWN actually have a chance of spawning on Fredian in normal chests that are around, players have been getting quite a few of them, because I keep a running check on randomly looking in players inventories.

So... prices will come up to reflect a rich economy, and buy prices will go down. Next step in this is for you ALL to come to a conclusion as to where I draw the line of merchant NPC sales. My personal preference is at +3's.
None of this is decided, but it is something that certainly makes sense to me.

Makz.

[AvengersWraith]

I knew creating shops would take time and not happen immediately if at all.

I sleep all day, even though summer here in Phoenix only last 8 to 9 months in my opinion, I keep the sleeping habits year round. I seldom see people in the tailoring shops the few times I have been in them. I personally wouldn't mind some of the craftable items being sold in their respected shops in West Styne and Inner Styne Castle crafting halls. Not everything that can be made, but a sample range of items.

Or even a bulliten board in the different shops where different characters can post items for sale or items wanted. How is Addicted coming with fixing a bulletin board off NWVault or creating one? Is it a current project or a back-burner item?