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Post by Shwabba on Feb 10, 2004 20:21:53 GMT
Heheh, okay, first off, I just wanted to let you guys know that I was pointing out the difference between stealing and confiscating because a paladin would confiscate enemy weaponry, and it would not count as stealing against the Paladin's Code.
As for the disarming player returning the weapons...well, I'm torn on that one.
HEROES: If they were taken as an RP tool, then make it an RP point to get them back. But if they were just taken to prevent their use in that combat, give them back and say you "threw them down in disgust when the fight was over" or some such thing. Keeping them as a trophy is RP plot, keeping them to sell them to a vendor where they'll disappear or keeping them just so no one else can ever get them again, is just griefing.
VILLAINS: Don't assume that just because your character is too proud to ask for them means they are gone forever. RP it out. Storm up to the hero and demand they return your weapons. Or just walk up to them and say something like "You have what belongs to me" type of line. You'd be surprised how many paladins (etc) will simply hand them back to you. Some will give a sermon/lecture while doing so, others would do so wordlessly. The reason? As diverse as the heroes themselves. Some would do so because the weapons do, in fact, belong to you and they know it. Their conscience won't allow them to keep the weapons. Others because their religious dogma demands it of them (i.e. followers of Tempus). Still others because their personal code demands it of them, or maybe they respect you as their adversary, et cetera, et cetera... Or you could simply kill them and take your weapons back. *shrug* It's all up to the players to decide how/if they are going to settle RP situations.
To summarize, taking someone's weapons and not giving them a chance to get them back one way or another is just plain griefing, though it is the "owner's" responsibility to attempt to get them back.
Your Diplomatic Neighborhood Shwabbaman
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Post by kline on Feb 10, 2004 21:36:01 GMT
Martial law Bah, I can do what ever I want I am a kight. Bah.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 10, 2004 22:22:50 GMT
Or just walk up to them and say something like "You have what belongs to me" type of line. You'd be surprised how many paladins (etc) will simply hand them back to you.... ...To summarize, taking someone's weapons and not giving them a chance to get them back one way or another is just plain griefing, though it is the "owner's" responsibility to attempt to get them back. Your Diplomatic Neighborhood Shwabbaman I agree, but who the heck stole them? I'm honestly not sure each time. Several of the battles were 12 people, with 3 villans and 9 heros. I can't scroll back and check the log because it's full from other action. Sometimes I know, for ex. Mack has disarmed me, but he's made it quite clear he won't talk to my character in a serious form, and attacked me on sight in the past. So now what? Disregard the fact that I never really talk to him anymore except to get this weapon back? Id rather not break character to have an in character moment. This is why I think it should be an OOC moment because of IC relationships. There is more to asking for the item than just pride of the person who lost their weapon. If the person who stole/confiscated (I do see the difference, but it's a fine line..) wants to give them back it should be up to them, and making it all OOC would be best. Otherwise the person keeping the weapon is doing just that, keeping it. If they want to give it back send a tell after the battle. And if they continue to take and not return in IS griefing. Look how Getty is responding and how he feels about it, his reply is basically 'turn about is fair play,' and I have to agree here. However, I don't see this as being a good solution, I see it leading to more disarms... edit: oh, one more thing about 'asking' for it back, if you want me to IC ask, I'm not going to be nice, I'm going to be IC. I'm going to accuse you of theft (its my property give it back!) until its returned. So are the heros will, IC, be nice and return it? There just doesn't seem to be motivations IC to do this, at least not in many cases. They were after all fight to the death right? |
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Post by JoScMa on Feb 11, 2004 4:57:38 GMT
Where you supposed to go is where you want to go. I never told you that you had to go to so and so place. If you need to go to Styne to do your business, then do it.
Um...no. That is a false statement. I remember that one nice chaotic day (which prompted Makz to make those beefed up guards), my other character, M'k'n'z'y, kept using Flesh to Stone spell on Sir Damien for repeatingly killing Derto (he kept doing it nonstop). No knights were in town, so I had to stone Sir Damien. And here comes Getty having a fit that killing Derto is not a crime and attacked M'k'n'z'y. Yeah....defending Derto is really an attack on Getty.
I'm on dial-up with P4 2.6, 512 RAM, and GF4 4200 64MB (4x AGP) for your info.
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Post by kline on Feb 11, 2004 7:42:47 GMT
I will just stop here with this it is over. I am no lier sorry.
Getty is dead.
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Post by Cella on Feb 11, 2004 9:48:09 GMT
It is possible to be really evil and stay out of jail, although I almost got jailed for conspiring to kidnap Hanah, but squirmed out by using another angle (Mac knows about that). I actually enjoyed the challenge of pushing the Knights to the brink (without PK'ing). It can be done, it involves heavy RP and a lot of buy-in from others, but the RP on this server is excellent with everyone looking to let it flow so it can be done.
For Evil only:
If you kill in town...you deserve to be jailed, if you kill in town and run, fine, but you have to come back sometime. I suggest an exit if you can and offload your equipment and return to take the punishment.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2004 15:12:12 GMT
I hardly think that requires killing off Getty, but thats your call.
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Feb 11, 2004 17:54:17 GMT
Hmmm...okay, let's see, we appear to be complaining about the handful of good guys who work well together and back each other up using smart tactics to keep their friends alive and town standing.
There has been a lot of 'don't start a fight we are here to RP' calling lately. Folks, if you push the 'smite me' button often enough you will see the smiting become harder as the gentle smiting did not do enough good. If you are playing evil and try hard enough to rile a good person...ie seduce their mate, kill or warp their friends, insult their deities, spit on their ideals, and generally make them despise you then be prepared for some good to be smart enough to take your head and ask questions later.
Either we can all start playing nicer and let RP scenes chatter and natter about before swinging or we can go as we are with swift and directed violence...I'm fine with either choice. I am just tired of the hypocrisy of certain people complaining about it when it is done to them and then being shocked and angry when people that roll with it over and over again finally complain right back.
Kudos to particularly Preedy78...I am surprised he isn't chain smoking by now!
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Feb 11, 2004 19:02:33 GMT
I've said this before I'll say it again: there are a load of far more evil things you can do than just slaughter the meek.
Personal example: poor, poor Tiberius Maximus was about to have a stroke he was so enraged at a certain trio of characters... (names concealed to protect the guilty dontcha know;-))... did I -- errr *he* -- get arrested? No. Did *he* have a great time being a ginormous prick? Yeah:-) Was it evil? Betcher boots it was. Did anyone die? Well just one person but I -- *he*! -- totally had it coming.
I think that if any caveat has to be added to the above tale it is that if you're going to play head games with people you have to make sure everyone is willing to play. In this case I believe we were all having fun with it, no hard feelings. We kept the spite and malice totally ic, no ooc crabbing, and I think we all had a grand time doing it. But it was definitely good struggling with evil... sure evil got spanked but we -- oh I give up -- did get our licks in;-)
Hanah speaking on Ivan's behalf:-p
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Post by AvengersWraith on Feb 11, 2004 23:35:27 GMT
There are private storage chests all over Fredian in West Styne, Inner Styne, Styne Harbor, Northern Desert, Whillim, and Castille to name several locations in general off my head.
My good guys keep back up of weapons in different chests, if the bugbears heroes took your weapons do you think they would give them back, what if an anchient red dragon got them. If you lose something consider it lost no matter who took it, it is part of life and greater part of the fantasy world we are living in.
Want to be able to return to West Styne unmolested after a crime, wear a disguise (universal dye kit if nothing else, write down the numbers of your favorite colors), alter the appearance, this can be done easily (depending on the materials you are using) with the NWN craft armor and craft weapon feats (you don't have to put points in to work with them, points only imrpove your odds and the types of materials you can work with), when I modify my items I do it one part at a time to keep the alteration chance low to increase my odds of success. Even easier, keep a second set of armor and weapons in a magic bag.
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Post by FaithIsTruth on Feb 12, 2004 0:26:12 GMT
I have a situation for you that just happened today. . . Maly kills Tortiana, away from Styne in the woods with only her sister as witness. Her sister later has sentiments (oddly enough) and tells Mack, who then seeks out Maly. With only one witness, a drow at that, wouldnt Mack + Karl have been suspicious or something? And as a lawful good char, I brought up the point that having only one witness, a drow suspect of various criminal actions, wouldnt really merit an arrest in my eyes. Karl says Oh God, Whatever or something like that. . . It IS true though, lawful good chars should act lawful good. Mack however had a perfectly reasonable explination for this however, and my character did manage to escape an arrest (yet again) so it all turned out nicely. . . jurisdiction could certainly help alot. . .
Edit: I regreted posting this almost as soon as I did, cuz it seems like whining again, but it reallly is relevant. . .
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Post by FaithIsTruth on Feb 12, 2004 0:32:55 GMT
Oh yes and maybe some kind of underdark evil city would be GREAT!
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Post by Preedy1978 on Feb 12, 2004 17:54:14 GMT
Oh...who says karl is Lawful good? :-)
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Post by Shwabba on Feb 12, 2004 19:05:07 GMT
So the heros will, IC, be nice and return it? There just doesn't seem to be motivations IC to do this, at least not in many cases. Everytime I post, I have this fantasy that people will actually read my entire post and fully appreciate, as well as understand, my intended message. Ah, well. Allow me to state this clearly; If you take someone's gear with no intention of ever allowing them to be able to reclaim it, in my opinion THAT IS GRIEFING. Especially if you do it on multiple occassions. If you take something that belongs to someone else, use it in RP or give it back. If you keep it and they come kill you, give it back to them. Otherwise you're being a stubborn jerk who is taking advantage of game mechanics. The game mechanics allow you to take from another player, but do not allow them to take their items back off your corpse. Makz COULD implement the program that makes player corpses lootable. Wouldn't that be fun?  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, if the two players can't agree on character interaction to return the weapons, then the RP is dead and return the gear to the player. And before anybody whines it, if the evil character just constantly says "No, there's no IC way we can play this out, gimme my stuff" then just give it to them and ignore that extremely poor Roleplayer from then on. They obviously aren't devious nor intelligent enough to properly play a villain worthy of your time. C'mon people, make some good stories, already. Your Bored-Of-Hack-Slack-Rinse-Repeat-Roleplay Shwabbaman |
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Post by JoScMa on Feb 12, 2004 20:50:35 GMT
I have a situation for you that just happened today. . . Maly kills Tortiana, away from Styne in the woods with only her sister as witness. Her sister later has sentiments (oddly enough) and tells Mack, who then seeks out Maly. With only one witness, a drow at that, wouldnt Mack + Karl have been suspicious or something? And as a lawful good char, I brought up the point that having only one witness, a drow suspect of various criminal actions, wouldnt really merit an arrest in my eyes. Karl says Oh God, Whatever or something like that. . . It IS true though, lawful good chars should act lawful good. Mack however had a perfectly reasonable explination for this however, and my character did manage to escape an arrest (yet again) so it all turned out nicely. . . jurisdiction could certainly help alot. . . Edit: I regreted posting this almost as soon as I did, cuz it seems like whining again, but it reallly is relevant. . . Mac was extremely close at biting your head off, but he knew he didn't have enough hard evidence to really do anything. Even if King's Forest is out of his jurisdiction, Tortiana was one of Mac's very good friends. He really doesn't give a care about jurisdiction under this circumstance. On another note, Mitza has a really good point. If evil PC's are going to talk trash to PC's like Mac or Karl, then don't expect them to look kindly on those evil PC's. Mac can and will act harshly to those evil PC's. If you're going to bite, we'll bite back  |
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