Why play evil??

[kline]

Why play evil? Is there anything for evil people on the server to look forward too? Is there a way an evil person on the server gets some privages? Are there any reasons to play evil? It seems the good guys get all the perks.
Why is it that people think that evil people run people from the server? Something I have seen written many times on many posts. I am sorry but I can personally say I have taken many people and showed them around and help many new people get started. I have also brought a lot of real good roleplayers into the server.
Why do people think that if something happens in west styne evey once and a while that new people will just say "oh my this is just a PKing server I am out of here".
None of this is true. The server is good it speaks for itself I stopped here. Look you all stopped and started playing here as well. The reason why is that the people here do care about RP and gaming and having fun in general. If that is what makes people stop playing because of the occational outbreak in west styne oh well. They are not the kind of people you want on your server anyway. They need to be in a chat room.
OK here is what I have to say. The good people need to stop claiming west styne as there own everyone always hangs out there. This is not cool that they get the most popular stop on the server to own and gaurd. It is not fair think about it people. I believe west styne should not be claimable buy anyone. I tire of the knights there running evil out of town all day. This is the only place to meet people it is where evryone meets and goes so it is just not fun to know that if you are evil that if you walk into west styne you better be able to run back out of there real fast because the real PKers and thats a capitle PK in the game are the good people at least as far as I have seen on the server so far. They will kill you on sight it dont matter if you have been sent to jail already for your crimes and even killed several times over and over again for them same crime they just keep coming at you none stop. If you dont beleive me or anything I write down here play and evil person for a while. I am dont mean those wimpy evil people that the people are always talking about of the forms. I mean someone that is evil. Evil people are not sneaky underhanded people that scurry the sewers. I tire of this description of evil." Be sneaky dont ever get caught dont let anyone now you are evil. Form plots and stuff." One thing to say about these things can you say rogue. Ok there. Just some thoughts to think about.
As for me I am going to start playing a paladin or something and I think all my friends will soon join me in being good guys until something can be figured out or fixed. I love the server I like the people here but none seems to understand what I am writing about because I have been ignored so many other times. People that I never even play with on the server always just comes on and states something like. "There are very few people that can accually play evil and pull it off". No what this person means is that if are going to play evil dont play real evil just be mean and run around and give people a mean laugh. Oh my sad days, sad days indeed.

[Spathic]

Uhm.... what? If you feel you are being griefed you should talk to Makz...

[Hanah]

I copied the initial post into textedit and swapped the words 'evil' and 'good'. I would recommend the curious attempt this experiment themselves. (For the record, I swapped 'paladin' for 'blackguard', consistency and all.)

Do you know what? The arguments were amazingly similar and equally invalid.

Hanah

[MitzaVolchenko]

Hmmm, because good is dumb?

No wait, because there is too much STUPID evil around?

On third thought, because it is fun to RP it?

Play what you feel like playing...make the character live and then if your alignment doesn't fit what the character becomes, change it or ask the DM's to change it.

I play predominantly good, but I have a couple of evil characters and one that is a CN nutcase that changes sides with the color of her clothes or the alignment of the stars....

I play whatever I am in the mood at the moment to play, and each character has motivations and goals that vary in degrees of attainability (new wardrobe-easy, overthrow the king-impossible). It isn't about winning, it is about TRYING to win

[AvengersWraith]

I don't want to eliminate all violence out of West Styne, but if there is a huge brawl everytime a new character trys to check this place out they will think it is a PK server.

My suggestion was for less open acts of evil in West Styne, not no acts of evil. Without evil how can we tell what is good. West Styne should be a relatively safe area for new players to get their feet wet. That is where several of the scripted quests start (NPCs haven't been disrupted), the quests gets them into some of the outer areas to explore, most of the basic needs a new character will have to get started is in West Styne, hence the stricter rules about violence in West Styne.

If you feel West Styne is the only place you can be evil, maybe you are more into PKing?

Evil leaders need a place to recruit evil followers also, something to think on...

Evil = killing; no, evil often trys manipulating others into evil acts, willingly or unwillingly.

Creativity is what I see lacking in some, but for the hack & slash characters, evil = killing good characters may seem like the only act of evil they can do.

[Percival]

Unfortunately the majority of the Evil Character are of the belief that Evil equals killing.

If you look at the classic battles of good versus evil, very rarely infact does evil kill. Evil wants power, and its hard to hold any power over dead people.

Want the secret to knowing whether you are RPing your character as evil appropriately? Does anyone outside of your close allies know you are Evil? I don mean suspect, but KNOW... If the answer is yes, you are doing a piss poor job of playing evil. Unless you are playing a psychopath, no one should know anything. They may have questions about you, but for the most part evil tries to pass itself off as good.

Hitler was about as evil as they come, but his charasmatic speaches and ideals were not "Kill the Jews", they were for "Promoting the ideals and beliefs of Arians" Making evil seem like the right thing to do is where it thrives. Good people follow evil unwittingly and that is where evil thrives. How many German Soldiers thought they were fighting to elimate the jewish race from the planet? Not many.

IMHO the best job of playing an evil character on the entire server is being done by one of the people who most people thinks is a beacon of good.

[Omega Darkstar]

I seem to hear the phrase "stupid evil" quite often. How frustrating to us evil villians regardless of thier intelligence. I personally believe that the whole "stupid evil" concept is just a mater of someone's perception. Their perception is reality, so everyone with those thoughts...have fun with that. Good is just as stupid as evil, so let it be known there are stupid good aplenty out there. That's my perception so just like others that will be my reality. Remember evil as well as good are going to do things people "deem" stupid. I know many evil (Getty in particular) and good characters that have low intelligences, do you really expect them to do something real smart like wait until the knights leave an area before they smash folks up? I think not, they don't care they're non-intelligent (sorry Kline just making a point.) On the other side of the story we have the smart evil doer who has a very high intelligence. (ex. Omega & Phoenix....never seen us formally charged with a crime, but everyone knows we're evil) ;D He (Omega) isn't going to wait for the knights to leave an area before he smashes someone, because frankly he doesn't care. The knights are just fools to him and he doesn't worry what thier actions will be, because he believes no matter what they try he will still be standing (unfortunatley that's not always the case) *steam starting to dissipate*

FYI: I know killing good chars is not the only acts ov evil that can be performed, but when the plots come to that we shouldn't be scolded because of it. Believe it or not evil has many plots going at once and I would be as bold to say many more that "Team Good" has on thier books at any given moment. Many of these plots involve the elimination of certain "team good members". Sorry, you guys are important om the server and are high profile marks.

THe last thing I want to do is make everyone mad at us evil chars. THe main idea to any of my concerns and rants is: Lets just all have fun!

Just my honest opnion. *Waits for stoning to begin*

[kline]

Man I dont think anyone really looks at my post I think everyone just writes what ever they want when ever they want. I count 4 post here already that have nothing to do with anything in my original post. I was not talk ing about evil PKing people where do some people get this stuff oh well. Yall guys keep reading what you want to into stuff that is not there. Man forms are no good at trying to get across a point or say something noone ever hears what you are trying to say. I honestly give up. Every time I write something on a form page someone or some people just have to get on and be a jerk not helping anyone or anything.

[AvengersWraith]

Kline, West Styne was not an occassional mishap or evil fling, it was the blown out of proportion version of the O.K. Corral; people were constantly doing little things, like killing Derto and the chickens, up to NPC merchants and NPC quest starters, then later on attacking knights.

Makz first attempt to install order as King Wend was met with ridiculous amount of back wash from the time of King Wend announcing order needed to be established in Styne, before the meeting even adjurned plots to over-throw the new government official were being hatched.

The CJ system was introduced, and Makz said right off that the CJ system was our project, but that he had plans for a justice system in the future. During CJ discussions marshal law was established. CJ discussion pretty much boiled down to martial law, but rules were more defined.

The knights were originally assigned to West Styne to protect new arrivals and maintain order there, plus try and stop PKers who log into Fredian and start there new life killing everything in sight, plus keep powerlevellers from PKing new arrivals. The duty of the knights is a lot more than just RPing with evil characters, it is keeping West Styne, as Makz put it, the "womb" of Fredian. Thier job is both IC when possible, OOC when necesary, at there discretion.

Why play evil, it should be a choice based on what you want your character to do; but if you want your character to create havoc in West Styne specifically know that not only does Makz, Fredian's Supreme Creator and Diety, has been nicely asking that West Styne be relatively safe for new players and old players, but others feel that way also; maybe your motives to disrupt West Styne is OOC.

Almost daily, West Styne has been under attack until about 3 days ago.

[Nox]

Just my opinion, but, in my limited experience, evil allows you to be selfish.

Surely one of the biggest differences between good and evil is just that. A chaotic person is more likely to go around killing people that an evil person. An evil person would not have a problem killing, as long as it facilitates personal gain.

An evil person gets to do whatever they want to achieve their personal aims and goals.

A good person is more limited by their desire to do the best for the community.

That is my two pence anyway.

[Preedy1978]

Ok...I CAN see where you guys are coming from.

True, an evil person wouldnt really care about other people or their reactions to them, or killing other people for that matter. But in RL society their ARE evil people out and about unfortunately, but does our society know this?

Evil is NOT about killing people, bottom line. Sure, an evil person will kill without usually feeling remorse, (unless his own potential gain was ruined of course.) but you have to think, what reasons does that person have for doing something like murder in front of law enforcers?

Evil doesnt have to be direct, it can be plain sneaky, creepy, rude, selfish, manipulative and so much more! Their are ENDLESS possibilities for people to rp evil, and i think maybe good ol' Z may have to switch back to evi again, just to prove a point that evil CAN be played WITHOUT resorting to violence. (Also, IMO, this is the most fun way.)

Having said that, I am NOT against violent evil, but the constant brawling in West Styne really HAS to stop. This is for OOC reasons really. West Styne is a 'newb' area, and new players really dont want to be killed in their first 5 minutes of being on the server due to a stray spell in a brawl. Look at the crime forums, nearly ALL the crimes are committed in West Styne!!

Why not set up a mass brawl in Castille, or the desert if you want to 'kick do-gooder a**' ?


Also Kline, in regards to your comment about good people claiming Styne for their own, I disagree.

If you have a rampaging gnome on the loose killing people at a rate of like 2 or 3 per day, then you are going to earn some notoriety, no matter where you go. See the problem? Percival's comments are spot on. If people KNOW you are evil, then you have gained that fame/infamy for yourself with that character. So, if your hanging out in West Stymne with Getty, and Hanah wont talk to you, Im not really surprised their, are you? Really?

Lets all chill out and take a step back here a minute...Im NOT saying that we should totally ban PKing in West Styne, but lets just lower the amount of it eh? Lets give the newbs a chance. If you wanna kill a do-gooder, ambush them out of town!!

[Cella]

True Lawful Evil offers great rewards...I thank you your majesty...*bows in a respectful manner*

Cella Harnech is Lawful Evil

Lawful Evil:

A Lawful Evil individual will base their choices on what is "just" but "best for me." Thus, the LE person will honor their word and follow the laws but always seek to twist things in their own favor. Simply put, they know the difference between "right and wrong" but don't care. An example of this is a wizard who serves a powerful king but, whispers in his ear in order to get laws passed that serve his own ends, such as outlawing all arcane magic while having the king decree his magic is divine. Thus, he eliminates the "competition" while still retaining all his own power. These are the "sociopath" of society. Darth Vader, Ming the Merciless and characters like them are good examples

[Zhoreb]

Well, back from my skiing trip. Most of the posts while I was gone are related to Good/Evil and the CJS and the use of the lasso. This topic is about 'Why play evil??', with some mixed in confusion about law/chaos in relation to good/evil. Let's burn my hands a little ;D

Kline has made a few statements I agree with, and some I don't:

Why play evil? Is there anything for evil people on the server to look forward too? Is there a way an evil person on the server gets some privages? Are there any reasons to play evil? It seems the good guys get all the perks.

The only ones with priviliges are the knights. And we all know the knights have been installed to maintain law and order, mainly in West Styne but most of the Island is within the jurisdiction of the knights. The knights are here to maintain order, apprehend criminals and question suspects. Not to root out evil. And besides, who says Knights equals Good?
Evil characters, but more so criminal characters have more to look forward to. The challenge has become bigger with the implementation of the CJS and the Knight Lasso. The only problem here is the continual punishment and attacks on sight mentioned a few paragraphs below.

The good people need to stop claiming west styne as there own everyone always hangs out there. This is not cool that they get the most popular stop on the server to own and gaurd.

I have not experienced it in this way. My evil character can freely roam in West Styne. But then again, he's not a criminal. In fact, he doesn't care about the people in West Styne, unless he needs them. Or are in the way of reaching his goals.

They will kill you on sight it dont matter if you have been sent to jail already for your crimes and even killed several times over and over again for them same crime they just keep coming at you none stop.

This is a very good point Kline is making. I have witnessed this on several occassions and it is kinda disturbing. It's logical that known criminals are treated a bit harsher then others, but I don't think it's 'right' to punish someone over and over for the same crime.

I mean someone that is evil. Evil people are not sneaky underhanded people that scurry the sewers. I tire of this description of evil." Be sneaky dont ever get caught dont let anyone now you are evil. Form plots and stuff."

And here I wholeheartedly disagree with Kline. I guess he's talking about characters performings acts that are against the law. Replace some of the evil in the quote above with thief or murderer, and tell me how many of those perform their 'jobs' out in the open. Let alone in front of authority figures, or against authority figures. IMHO most evil is hidden from sight. Just as most crime is hidden from sight.
And not every criminal is evil. And not every evil is criminal.

Cella gave a fair description of Lawful Evil. Nerull is lawful evil as well. He obeys, he sucks up his pride when needs be. He doesn't break the law, unless greater needs are served (like obeying Phoenix , or the specific law is too much in contradiction with his own rules.)

[Phoenix]

Everyone who defines evil is right and wrong. You are all right in the sense that you are describing evil, you are wrong when you think it's the only evil.

Evil is sneaky because you want an action hidden..
Evil is open because you want people to see something.
Evil is murdering someone for no reason.
Evil is murdering someone for cause.
Evil is saving someone, because they will help you later.
Evil is stealing from your mother.
Evil is giving, because they will help you later.

Hitler was evil, was he sneaky? Did he hide his murder? Jack the ripper was evil, was he open? Did he show his face?

Quit defining evil so much, it make you think down on people who don't fit 'your' idea of it. Same thing for good, unless you have some writte code to live up to there are MANY MANY interpertations of actions.

The questions is being missed here though. Kline wants to know the end purpose to evil, is it just RP? Because that's being watered down for some of us. Or is there something else we can work towards? If your a good character, you could ease into the knight path. Sure evil has that route too, but thats A. limited and B. already being done.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel for someone who plays evil or are they constantly a tool in RPs?

[addicted2rpg]

We all have our different styles. One of my favourite evil RPs is Mysaides Mein. He does make derranged references to books sometimes others don't understand, but beyond that, there really is a method to the madness if you have the Eye In the Sky (aka, DM powers to spy) at your disposal. He can't kill, because his char build is the worst on the server, perhaps only matched by Lumix of Whillem for rock bottom , so evil cannot be killing for him even if he wanted it to be. Quite a show, but only if its not the same plot Frost is in

Maybe some think playing evil is pointless, but I do know there is a very sick and twisted, sacrifical, incestial, child molesting (ok, well maybe not child molesting but the incest part is true), lying, stealing, cheating, rotten core somewhere lurking beneath the "hood." You can say whatever you want about the style, but I see someone having fun playing evil. And that is why play evil.

Cella, for better or worse, enjoys herself too it seems.