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Post by ride on May 4, 2004 20:51:43 GMT
yeah I agree on that too.... welcome to thunderdome  the most "fair" system I think we had was no spells or anything "banned" and we'd break the big group up into two smaller groups (which usually became good vs. evil of course) we'd have all players roll D100 with the highest numbers from each group doing battle... seemed simple to me... we had some variations, teams and such, but that was basically it... and hell Preedy if you can put up with all of it again, count me in for helping to organize it if y'all need the help.... |
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Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 4, 2004 21:27:31 GMT
I still say we assassinate the whiners who whine-whine a single subject, or more, with lack of detail and proof... And tear to shreds the DM bashers...
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Post by ride on May 4, 2004 21:29:20 GMT
I agree on that too.... don't think Makz would like it tho hehe |
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Post by Ihavenofeet on May 5, 2004 23:18:34 GMT
I like the simple approach, if u have a grudge or you just think you can whoop everyone around you this is def a good way to do it. gambling and bragging rights are per match. possibly the two fighting put in their own items in the pot. -To the victor...
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Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 5, 2004 23:20:26 GMT
I actually just visited the arena, pretty fun! Not that I fought there, I just stared at all the toys...
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Post by CrunchX on May 7, 2004 4:22:14 GMT
About the banned spells etc... the only spell I think should not be allowed is timestop. You can't really say that's like a fighter losing his sword, more like losing a boot... casters have so many more ways to hurt people than just a sword. There is IGMS, harm, death magic, all of the bigby hands, drown, not to mention the epic spells like hellball, dragon knight, mummy dust etc... and remember those spells are very powerful against fighter type characters because there are no immunity items for IGMS, harm and bigby's... it's just spell resistance. So this is how a fight could go... "mage vs fighter", mage casts timestop, mage casts bigby's, mage casts IGMS a few times and whatever else they have until fighter is dead, there is really not much you can do if you're the fighter... so my guess is that we'll be seeing a lot of fighter only duels or everyone will make monks to get the spell resistance  Well i'm just a newbie on fredian but I like it and I would like to be in some arena fights, even if it means no rules at all. |
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Post by Azuul on May 7, 2004 8:50:06 GMT
The problem I see with banning any spells for mages is that if this happens then it could be argued that anyone that can use certain items that give immunities dont or cant. There are to many immunities to certain spell effects within the game to dissallow a mage his spells within a duel. There is an item that basically negates the effect of igm's totally and there are a few items that have a SR rating giving a fighter type character even a better chance of beating a mage. just my 2p worth  |
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Post by CrunchX on May 7, 2004 10:09:41 GMT
The problem I see with banning any spells for mages is that if this happens then it could be argued that anyone that can use certain items that give immunities dont or cant. There are to many immunities to certain spell effects within the game to dissallow a mage his spells within a duel. There is an item that basically negates the effect of igm's totally and there are a few items that have a SR rating giving a fighter type character even a better chance of beating a mage. just my 2p worth The armor my pc is wearing at the moment gives 20 spell resist, barely enough to resist a basic magic missile... no chance to resist any higher level spells, there is probably armor with a bit more SR but I doubt it would be much. Also about the immunity items, I would go without death magic and mind spell immunity if I needed to, it wouldn't bother me too much. I haven't seen that item that makes IGMS useless though, what's that called? I really liked the idea of high level PvP with only basic items, not even +1... now that would be interesting to watch and fight in. |
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Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 7, 2004 15:56:20 GMT
I could reveal the secret on killing a mage with a fighter, but I'll let you guys stew for a bit... There is a way, and SR isn't the answer.
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Post by Phoenix on May 7, 2004 17:05:07 GMT
Banning spells.... Lets see, immune to: knockdown, death, mind affecting, elemental resistances, if not immunities, magic resist with the armour of creator are all very common. Now lets ban spells... For the same reasons I don't think the server should ban spells, I don't think arean combat shoud. It doesn't reflect the whole point of the combat. IE if you two were fighting PVP elsewhere timestops would fly.
I also know there are *several* ways to defeat timestops w/o high SR. It is a good tactic though, and not everyone can beat it...
Also SR calculation is caster level +d20 +feats vs SR. It doesn't matter what level spell is cast, just the caster's level. Phoenix is 39 level caster +6 for epic spell penetration =45 +d20.
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Post by CrunchX on May 8, 2004 6:08:07 GMT
Banning spells.... Lets see, immune to: knockdown, death, mind affecting, elemental resistances, if not immunities, magic resist with the armour of creator are all very common. Now lets ban spells... For the same reasons I don't think the server should ban spells, I don't think arean combat shoud. It doesn't reflect the whole point of the combat. IE if you two were fighting PVP elsewhere timestops would fly. I also know there are *several* ways to defeat timestops w/o high SR. It is a good tactic though, and not everyone can beat it... Also SR calculation is caster level +d20 +feats vs SR. It doesn't matter what level spell is cast, just the caster's level. Phoenix is 39 level caster +6 for epic spell penetration =45 +d20. So you're saying Phoenix couldn't even touch a high level monk... not even a chance without epic spells, that's what it looks like to me. *EDIT* Oh I forgot to say the monk would need a few improved spell resistance feats. About the timestop, well I would say most people don't use it in duels, same with harm, but maybe i've just been in too many "friendly" fights which I like more anyway, no point getting angry that you died Also your tactics for beating TS, what are they? The only tactic I can think of is being immune to the spell school of transmutation, or at least resisting it somehow...  |
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Post by Preedy1978 on May 8, 2004 8:58:43 GMT
There is a defence against harm, you just gotta look for it. Also remember, every timestop spell memorised by the magic user is one less lvl 9 spell that they can use for something else. Timestop/IGMS spamming may be lame in some peoples eyes (Including my own) but the fact is, if it can be done, then it can be done. There are defences against IGMS as well, making that spell pretty weak. So my point is: There are defences against nearly everything on this server, so why ban anything?
This is what the arguments all started about last time. Its all happening again. *sigh*
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Post by CrunchX on May 8, 2004 9:14:07 GMT
I didn't want to start an argument but what is a good defence against the timestop spell? |
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Xiloscient
Fredian
~Xiloscient ~Bora ~Sable ~Gorfnod ~Lia
Posts: 94
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Post by Xiloscient on May 8, 2004 14:32:34 GMT
Nothing stops Timestop... Absolutely... Nothing... Not a SR of 72 ((Uber Monks)) .. Not unlimited Greater Spell Mantles (Damien Swift))... If the mage cast it... he gets 9 seconds of kill time.. Period. ((there is always counterspelling though =P))
And the whole... Timestop/IGMS thing... is not a problem.. The timestop is a problem... I have seen many other Timestop/<insert anything> spams before... Timestop is the only thing "cheese" of that equation.
Every other spell has some way to stop it... Harm... Shadow shield and neg energy prot.... IGMS ...Armor of the Creator and another armor I wont name.. ((27 lvl req btw))
Quite true that in a real pvp fight IC timestops would fly... but whoever wins by spaming 6-7 timestops is not much of a winner... Xilo has 2 timestops always prepared... but only as a last ditch escape.. and never has he ever atacked another PC while time is "stoped"
If you haven't guessed by now... I am 100% for no holds bared fighting... with the one exception of... that wonderful spell.. Timestop.
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Post by Yukin on May 8, 2004 15:14:30 GMT
Maybe rules could be put in place so that only certain things may be used during the timestop, or a restriction on the number of mass-damage spells that can be used in that time. What's so different in using IGMS in timestop than in non-timestop conditions? There's not much different really. Okay, if someone TS/IGMS spams then it might become unfair. In that case rules could dictate that only one offensive spell may be used within the 9 seconds of TS. That way the opponent would still have half a chance if he survives. And if someone doesn't follow the rules then they would be disqualified from the battle.
You could always create two different battle groups, one with restrictions on spells and such (but not too much) for the mages out there who want a tougher challenge, and one for anything goes, for the non-mages who want a tougher challenge. This would give choice to players, so if anyone is found whining, then they can't say that the fight was unfair since they acknowlegded the fact that they were aware that their choice would allow/prevent certain things.
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"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 
