|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 17:56:46 GMT
I was suprised to find that an exceptional mithril bastard sword has +9 enhancement and an exceptional mithril longsword only has +6... is there any reason for this? It seems a bit strange to me. They both have the same "massive criticals 2 damage" so why not have the same enhancement?
|
|
|
|
Post by Silentus on May 18, 2004 18:33:45 GMT
Cuz theyre different weapons  Honestly though, Makz has said that modifying weapons at this point is at the bottom of his list (or maybe fallen off the list entirely). He's done alot of work on them and is moving on for at least a while. |
|
|
|
Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 18, 2004 18:36:20 GMT
It gives incentive for people to actually get exotic weapon proficiency, there, happy?
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 18:52:46 GMT
I think that's exactly the answer. Many of the exotic weapons have higher AB, with the exception of a certian dagger. Not sure about comparisons between metals like your looking at is the same. Also, look at weapons of renown.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 19:06:16 GMT
So the bastard sword is just better than a longsword on fredian, no downside, no penalty, name one good thing about longswords that the bastard sword doesn't have (using 1 feat to equip it is still not enough to balance it).... Also an exceptional mithril greatsword has only +4 enhancement... and it's a 2 handed weapon! With a bastard sword you can still use a shield, do more damage than a longsword and a greatsword, and also have more enhancement... just something to think about.
(and yes i've seen the weapons of renown, same story there)
|
|
|
|
Post by Silentus on May 18, 2004 19:10:11 GMT
Think of it this way - crafters on Fredian are exceptionally talented at making Bastard swords...
Also think of it this way - Makz made it clear more than once that he doenst want to do this work anymore for a while - he has balanced a ton already (as ontyone who has used the base ATS can tell you. Maybe someday he'll get to it, but not now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 19:11:37 GMT
You don't need the exotic feat to equip it. Longsword is also free for elves, so you don't have the martial feat you can still use it.
No, two handed weapons will generaly do more damage with 2 handed weapons because of the 1.5Xstr to damage. Plus 2d6 yeilds higher average damage than 1d12, so it's certianly better than 1d10.
All that being said. I don't think the difference from one weapon to another should be that big within the same metal. The difference from +4 to +9 is quite a bit...
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 20:07:06 GMT
Think of it this way - crafters on Fredian are exceptionally talented at making Bastard swords... Also think of it this way - Makz made it clear more than once that he doenst want to do this work anymore for a while - he has balanced a ton already (as ontyone who has used the base ATS can tell you. Maybe someday he'll get to it, but not now. Well sorry, i wasn't trying to complain too much because I know it has been worked on a lot since I used ATS on another server. I just wanted to know if there was a reason. |
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 20:12:59 GMT
You don't need the exotic feat to equip it. Longsword is also free for elves, so you don't have the martial feat you can still use it. No, two handed weapons will generaly do more damage with 2 handed weapons because of the 1.5Xstr to damage. Plus 2d6 yeilds higher average damage than 1d12, so it's certianly better than 1d10. All that being said. I don't think the difference from one weapon to another should be that big within the same metal. The difference from +4 to +9 is quite a bit... Well i've already said that I don't think having to use 1 feat is enough to balance it, but that's just my opinion. Also about the greatsword damage, that might do more damage if they had the same enhancement, but they don't.. it has +4 compared to +9 which changes everything. |
|
|
|
Post by Silentus on May 18, 2004 20:15:47 GMT
I doubt it was deliberate - probably an oversight... I could be wrong (and if I am Im sure Makz will jump in and correct me). I know that enhancement modifications is a sore spot with him at this point, so Im trying to be the strong arm, nay-sayer so he doesnt have to be  |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 20:21:12 GMT
Well i've already said that I don't think having to use 1 feat is enough to balance it, but that's just my opinion. Also about the greatsword damage, that might do more damage if they had the same enhancement, but they don't.. it has +4 compared to +9 which changes everything. But your also only looking at one level of the metal. Maybe if that was the end of the line it would be a stronger argument (not sure of all the differences, it may be this way at myrk too). However it's not, your only talking about a span of levels, IIRC just a few too, the +10 is only a couple of levels away. Also your not think about level restrictions. You can use that +4 a lot earlier than the +9. So that means your using a different metal weapon at the same level, IE you wouldn't be using mithril since it's only +4, you would use adam./myrk. Again, I see your point, and maybe it's not meant to be that far apart, just showing other options. |
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 20:35:20 GMT
But your also only looking at one level of the metal. Maybe if that was the end of the line it would be a stronger argument (not sure of all the differences, it may be this way at myrk too). However it's not, your only talking about a span of levels, IIRC just a few too, the +10 is only a couple of levels away. Also your not think about level restrictions. You can use that +4 a lot earlier than the +9. So that means your using a different metal weapon at the same level, IE you wouldn't be using mithril since it's only +4, you would use adam./myrk. Again, I see your point, and maybe it's not meant to be that far apart, just showing other options. OK now on adamantine the greatsword is +6 and the bastard sword is +10. I can't check myrkandite because i've never found it yet  About the level restrictions, that doesn't make sense either because a greatsword is a higher level in ATS compared to a bastard sword, which means you can make better bastard swords sooner than you can with greatswords, until you can make everything in myrk of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 20:47:30 GMT
At least the difference went down from 5 to 4. At mryk it's balanced, I think. I can check with Phoenix later when I get home, I have myrk and the skills. Both are +10 (correct me if I'm wrong).
The problem you are noticing now isn't the lack of good weapons, because the are out there. What you are noticing is the spread of available weapons, which seems to be smaller with longswords. Again, this is at your level though. At lower levels the longsword may have more choices (since mithril bastard is +9 a +6 may not be available, but it is for the longsword).
The spread of weapons and when you can use them is a lot less of an issue than a certian weapon not having good options at any level.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 21:31:07 GMT
I have to disagree about there being more longswords to use at lower levels than with bastard swords, the best non-crafted longsword i've found is the "Jian of Impact" and it's only +5 with a level restriction of 21. But in the end we will most likely be using weapons of renown right? So the bastard sword still has +5 more enhancement and +2 max damage with no penalty compared to a longsword. At least with that renown dagger it has a downside because... well it's a dagger |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 21:40:59 GMT
Interesting, you have no problem with a d6 weapon with +20 vs. a d10 weapon with +15 (the +5 diff more than makes up for the d roll). But you do have a problem when the same thing is applied to d8 vs. d10 weapons... What's the difference? Don't plan on using a dagger? |
|
Honestly though, Makz has said that modifying weapons at this point is at the bottom of his list (or maybe fallen off the list entirely). He's done alot of work on them and is moving on for at least a while.
