|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 22:06:13 GMT
Interesting, you have no problem with a d6 weapon with +20 vs. a d10 weapon with +15 (the +5 diff more than makes up for the d roll). But you do have a problem when the same thing is applied to d8 vs. d10 weapons... What's the difference? Don't plan on using a dagger?  Daggers are not d6, they are d4. Also most likely if you use daggers it will be on a dexterity based character, so even with a +20 dagger you would have a very hard time getting through my damage reduction + resistance, I don't think it would even do 1 damage to me. |
|
|
|
Post by Silentus on May 18, 2004 22:10:19 GMT
Yeah, I agree with ya there Crunchx - thats the only reason why I Makz allowed the +20. FYI - more often than not the Weapons of Reknown are not the most powerful in class (or at least they werent last time I crafted them all - though that was about 2 months ago). Most of the time the Myrks take the cake.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 22:13:43 GMT
Same thing is still true at d4, only shows my point even more.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 22:15:36 GMT
Same thing is still true at d4, only shows my point even more. I edited my post, have another look  |
|
|
|
Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 18, 2004 22:20:33 GMT
Gotta love the backbiter! I personally think it's the weapon strongest magic user weapon in the game, small size, no need for fancy feats and just plain hurts!
And don't forget, the backbiter can be enchanted with greater magic weapon, so it becomes a +25 hit +20 damage, just without super damage reduction. Regardless, only epic warding is above +5 that is used alot, so it doesn't make any difference anyway. It's a very strong little bugger, I use it more sometimes than my black legion! I'm tempted to make a dagger build, ironically, just because the backbiter is so fun!
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 18, 2004 22:26:50 GMT
I edited my post, have another look HAHA I'm too fast for edits.  Isn't the +20 going to beat out your +5/whatever damage resist? It's 15 points higher!!! I'd have to look, but I don't think it's +20 to attack, it's a +20 enchantment. You need to meet Getty. That's his weapon of choice, I'm sure he can show you a little more about it than I. |
|
|
|
Post by W(ie-ei)rdness on May 18, 2004 22:30:16 GMT
I'm pretty sure that the backbiter's extra damage and to hit do not count as enhancement, so the backbiter gets the additional +5, I think... I have to check, but I'm pretty sure it worked.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 18, 2004 22:42:45 GMT
You're all talking about damage reduction but I have damage RESISTANCE too, so it doesn't matter if it's a +100 weapon. I still think that dagger couldn't even leave a scratch on me unless it was used by a strength build, even then it would only hurt about as much as a normal old 10gp dagger ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Gealcath on May 18, 2004 23:28:35 GMT
A exotic weapon should be better then anything else there is, because it requires a feat for it. Also as to a mithril longsword getting +4 and a bastard sword getting +9, since its exotic it should be more powerful because its the only class of weapon that requires you to take a feat. There has to be a reason it requires a feat to use, and 1d8 compared to 1d10 isnt worth the extra 3 damage if the bastard sword got a +5 enhance.
The only diffrence between a +15 bastard sword and a +15 dagger is 6 damage, and if your damage resitance is good enough to lower a +20 dagger that much, a +15 bastard sword would do the same damage as the +20 dagger.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 19, 2004 8:06:08 GMT
Why does everyone think getting 1 little feat is such a big deal?? It shouldn't change things that much. About the damage resistance, remember I was talking about dexterity based characters using daggers, now tell me who is going to use a bastard sword on a dexterity character??  Strength builds just do more damage, so some of it will get through my damage resistance. A exotic weapon should be better then anything else there is, because it requires a feat for it. Also as to a mithril longsword getting +4 and a bastard sword getting +9, since its exotic it should be more powerful because its the only class of weapon that requires you to take a feat. There has to be a reason it requires a feat to use, and 1d8 compared to 1d10 isnt worth the extra 3 damage if the bastard sword got a +5 enhance. The only diffrence between a +15 bastard sword and a +15 dagger is 6 damage, and if your damage resitance is good enough to lower a +20 dagger that much, a +15 bastard sword would do the same damage as the +20 dagger. |
|
|
|
Post by Zhoreb on May 19, 2004 12:31:54 GMT
Not only for magic users...how about those nice little (halfling) fighter/thief STR builds? Why do you think it is called a 'backbiter' after all? ;D It has +20 Enhancement bonus btw, not +20 to hit or something like that.
I have lured another friend of mine to come to the Island. He doesn't know yet that he'll be trapped forever, MUHAHAHAHA ;D.
And to be able to play with him, I will have to start a new character...it might just be a halfling Fighter/Weapon Master/Rogue. The dagger master! I think he will be able to reach a To Hit of 75 - 80 + d20...
Here comes halfling death
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 19, 2004 14:47:16 GMT
Look, I'll try to explain it. There are different weapons for different builds.
Want exotic, there are the biting bastard and katana of the dragons. These are usually str. builds. It costs and extra feat to use. These weapons, should and are, better weapons compared to the similar martial weapon. It should be, they cost an extra feat. It's not that one feat is such a big deal, it's the fact that there IS a cost to using these weapons.
Don't want exotic, but still like the str. bulids. Fine, there are 2-handed axes and longswords. This covers shield and shieldless builds. The black and white legion swords are good, now sure the names of the 2-handed axes that are nice, but they are out there.
Dont want exotic, and your a dex build. Fine, the dagger we are talking about fits the bill perfect. Of course if your a dex build you likely have backstab. Sure your not putting up damage from srt. and the weapon's damage itself, what self-resepcting thief wouldn't stab in the back?
As far as getting past your damage reduction, pfft. Lets do a quick damage analysis. 10d6 (easy to get backstab, 35 ave)+1d4+20(weapon, assumes +20 is enchantment)+5(str and misc)=~63. Crit. x2=~126. What's your damage reduction again?
Not all weapons will be good in every characters hands. The weapons are not 'perfectly' aligned so they are all even, but you always have viable weapons to choose from depending on your level.
|
|
|
|
Post by MitzaVolchenko on May 19, 2004 16:21:49 GMT
I knew there was a reason I love you Phoenix!
|
|
|
|
Post by CrunchX on May 19, 2004 18:40:18 GMT
As far as getting past your damage reduction, pfft. Lets do a quick damage analysis. 10d6 (easy to get backstab, 35 ave)+1d4+20(weapon, assumes +20 is enchantment)+5(str and misc)=~63. Crit. x2=~126. OK... try getting a sneak attack on me with true seeing... and in a duel, it's just not going to happen. So you end up with about 29 damage maximum without a crit, that won't get past my resistance, so if you get a crit you might do 20+ damage to me... and that's talking max damage, which doesn't happen a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on May 19, 2004 18:50:48 GMT
This is way off topic to the original posts, but hey, it's your thread. Let me just point out again, no build is perfect, and some builds will not defeat other builds. However, that isn't the case here, your logic is flawed. True seeing can be dispelled no? Do you really think you have more TS spells than the rogue has scrolls/rings/wands of dispell? When you run out of TS, the thief could HiPS/sneak attack you to death, in a one on one duel. Since you want to focus on your build, give us the basic level breakdown and I can show you specifics. |
|
