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Post by Phoenix on Jan 27, 2004 17:06:42 GMT
2b. Respawn after death in PvP means end of PvP. Makz. Is this a new rule? It would certianly end the battle-respawn-battle-respawn, rinse-repeat, over and over, 'events' I have been involved with, both times I felt like getting a DM involved.  At some point, after the respawn in my opinion, the RP dies. I mean how do you RP this scenario. 2 people meet, they get into an argument, playerA kills playerB. playerB respawns, rolls and remembers. So playerB attacks playerA again, and dies again. playerB respawns attacks again (doesn't roll because or misses roll, hey they remembered you killed them the first time, so why roll to see if they remember again). So the attack again, and again, the die every time... This has happened 2 times to me and my friends over the last week... |
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sniven
Young One
Assassins do it from behind :)
Posts: 23
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Post by sniven on Jan 27, 2004 17:15:16 GMT
I think its a good ruling that respawn and the combat is over I mean if you couldnt respawn... combat would be over soo even if it isnt ic to do so then figure out a way to make it be. Struck dumb doesnt remeber, in shock etc. doesnt want to die again.
It used to be that if you killed someone regardless of what they did to you there was no persuing it if they respawned and if you were killed by someone and respawn well you probably shouldnt persue it either i mean they killed you once they could do it again.
If you want some fun hard core pvp with your players just happen to meet in the willhelm arena and go nuts kill and do whatever you want respawn and kill again thats an area that it should be acceptable in. We all like to cut loose at least i do somtimes and usually end up sparring with someone in the arena unless its ic to kill a few people but after they are dead.. walk away point made doing it again would just take away the meaning of the first time.
I think a perfect assessment of respawning ends combat. The slayer should never persue the slain for the same reason again unless the slain at a later date makes it an issue again.
Just my two cents
Sniven
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Post by Makzimia on Jan 27, 2004 17:42:40 GMT
Yes respawn on death from PvP meaning an end is a addendum rule, and I updated the journal entry with it also, as well as the important information entry for rules.
Makz.
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Jan 27, 2004 22:43:19 GMT
Having asked Makzimia about it, the clarification was that if the slain after being killed for RP reasons does not let the matter drop, then it is to be reported to the DM's.
If I misunderstood, Makzimia, please correct me.
This new rule does not mean no RP kills, it just means that things like what happened in West Styne the other evening won't happen again. Once one side is victorious and the killing is done, the matter is done.
I for one was enjoying the RP and fully prepared to take an RP death if anyone could take Mala down.
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Post by Spathic on Jan 28, 2004 0:07:20 GMT
i don't know if i like that idea... like if you start getting heated with someone and they manage to get the drop on you, after they win you can do nothing in reprisal? it seems not right...
I think that respawn ending things is a bit too simple... i think it really has to be a case by case thing... (i don't like the raise... if i am killed PVP i'll take my XP lumps
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Post by Phoenix on Jan 28, 2004 2:43:04 GMT
It's just meant to stop constant respawn-fight-repeat, not kill reputation, IMO.
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Post by Spathic on Jan 28, 2004 3:49:34 GMT
Except that as written it basically allows no revenge... which means you get caught in an ambush and get "punked", by this rule you have no recourse... It will kill reputation as a side effect...
Obviously excessive respawn and continuing the fighting is bad and shouldn't be allowed, but i think no reprisal isn't exactly good...
Maybe make the rule that there has to be some time limit... like a cooling off period between death and reprisal... something that will make sure that said reprisal is RP not grief...
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Post by Zhoreb on Jan 28, 2004 12:07:45 GMT
It's a good thing to try to stop the respawn/attack/die/respawn cycle. But I don't think rule 2b is the best way to stop this.
What if your character is ambushed in a isolated place. You get into a fight, and die. The killer then does not resurrect you, and there was nobody around to witness or help you out. The only option left is to respawn. End of roleplay, not even the slightest chance to remember anything of what happened.
To me it looks like a license to kill. The killer can get away with it, no one will ever know. At least, not ic.
I do not have a better solution, so maybe it is for the best. Maybe change 2b so that the first respawn of a character does not apply to this rule?
That will give other problems, like the killer is not around to see the die role.
Well, just my 2 €cents.
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Post by AvengersWraith on Jan 28, 2004 12:52:14 GMT
2b: can be interpreted as "you died and respawned, you need to think of something better then just running back and getting into battle, especially if others are still in the encounter", examples;
1st scenario: character "hothead" starts fight with character "uber dudette", dudette enters battle with hothead and four of his friends, hothead gets killed first by dudette for starting the fight, hothead respawns and returns to fight dudette -- 2b was just broken in this scenario
2nd scenario: Hothead and friends jump dudette and kill her, they are just standing around and laughing, no one else is around so dudette needs to respawn because hothead and friends don't raise her and ask for a d20 roll. Dudette makes her way back to where she was and hothead and friends are still there and combat ensues with dudette being ready to reak revenge since she isn't surprised -- my opinion is this should not violate rule 2b, but Makz opinion is the one that counts.
In this example dudette wasn't asked for the d20 and she merely returned to where she was before, nor was she the original instigator; however, there can easily be hundreds of scenarios, it would be easier to make the rule black and white to avoid prolonged frustration and repeated addressing of this issue. RP needs to take a back seat so that players won't commit the act and then try to justify it later.
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Tenra
Young One
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Post by Tenra on Jan 28, 2004 12:52:54 GMT
Well if they leave you for dead taking off with out raising you, then it's a PK not a rp event but if you got pissed and took the respawn, That ends that encounter for you and them. But you forgotten what happen because you took the respawn at temple. But if they leave you for dead then report it as a pkilling. Chances are they done it to someelse too.
Will be dangers in the woods out side the city be it from monsters or bandits ,chance you take in the wild.
If you get jumped by players in ambush . since we cant wear mask and cover up our names you know who it is, Unless its famous bandit and wants his name know. Most will cover themselves up so they can walk around town later to do thier bussiness. They should spring their trap, if you die you should wait dead , they should tell you something , then raise you. and you should be off on your way and the bandits thiers. But if you happen to get away then they been discovered. Chance they take and now they have defend themselves from what ever laws comes out.
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Post by Spathic on Jan 28, 2004 13:06:30 GMT
i think leaving you for dead is valid RP... it seems more valid to me than anything... If i ever go PVP i'm not raising anyone and don't want to be raised either... it's just icky...
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Post by Makzimia on Jan 28, 2004 13:20:19 GMT
2b really comes into it's own in at least two places this kind of thing has been happening 99.5% of the time.... west styne and north styne, I have less problems with players who have actually discovered the rest of the island and go elsewhere to RP as well. There is no absolute solution short of HCR death... and that is NOT happening. I think most players are capable of being mature about this... and it does actually cool things off better, when some would just go ahead and kill and kill.
Knights who kill during something like this would normally, and I have watched, RP that as knocked down and tied up to take to Jail. A certain element of players however have gone on griefing trips. Anyway, it stands as is. As always, if needed I modify on the fly... but you have a come back now.
Makz.
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Post by Percival on Jan 28, 2004 13:48:22 GMT
BINGO... There is no revenge. Your walking down the street in real life, 3 people attack you, rob you and kill you. Whats your revenge? What is your recourse? God, it infurates me that people think they have a "Right to Revenge". If you die you die. Get over it.
I know the server allows for a roll to see if you remember, but personally, even if I do have the opportunity, I dont bother with a reroll if the kill was done RP because they won the fight. Acknowledge the player's actions in ooc as "well fought or well played" if it was, and if it wasn't I clear the area as their victory gives them "right of way"
This "My sword is bigger then yours" and "You got lucky that time, now I will mop the floor with you" attitudes are those of people who should go play DOOM. It is only natural that people want to test themselves against others, I have no problem with PvP what so ever, and think servers that disallow it totally are pathetic. But accept the responcibilty of your actions. If you are walking through the woods and 3 thieves surprise and kill you, d**n I guess you should have put more points into spot then, or been a little more careful. Here are a couple basic things that everyone forget in D&D and especially NWN that everyone should keep in mind.
1) NO PLACE IS SAFE - Be ready for a problem at all times.
2) NOTHING STAYS THE SAME FOREVER - If you suddenly run into a Dragon that is not normally where it is, it is perfectly fair. Expecting monsters to be in the same place everytime is bordering on metagaming and you got no right to pregnant dog because you got caught with your pants down.
3) ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR - UNTIL SOMEONE DIES. Don't get pissed because someone gave you no warning. Do you really expect someone to come up to you and ask..."Excuse me, may I kill you today?"
4) GET OVER IT. If you lose you lose. If you win you win. The worst RP is that of not only the loser who respawns and reattacks, but the winner who goads on that they killed you. The situation is settled, there is no revenge, there is no gloating to the dead player once they respawn. Harass them til the respawn all you like, they dead anyway, what do they care. But once they respawn the situation should end PvP from ALL perspectives...both winner and loser.
The simple answer to all questions can be found in one question. "What would I do if I were really this character?" Often times you will find that the answer is "Nothing, because I would be dead" When that is the case, accept and move on. To coin your own words "You got Punk'd...There is no revenge"
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Tenra
Young One
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Post by Tenra on Jan 28, 2004 14:37:16 GMT
Well said Percival...
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Post by Preedy1978 on Jan 28, 2004 14:58:13 GMT
I couldnt agree more percival
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