Evil Plots - How? (+ Evil chaotic town idea)

[Cella]

I am in the middle of a fabulous spell playing an evil character and I must say It has been so much fun. This has, as ever, been down to the people around me who make it all possible, I thank you for your help.

I have noticed a few things that prevent an Evil player doing anything Evil really.

First PK is frowned on and to be honest quite rightly unless it is in RP/Plot driven situations and controlled.

Second, The lack of Plot ideas. As an evil character, you main focus generally is power, I was asked what my ambitions were and I sat there and thought,

1. Dethrone the King - Pointless, He is beyond contact with no real way of getting inside his court.

2. Create an army - nice idea, except for what? To fight two Knights and Frost.

3. Extortion - is a nice angle, still working on that one recent kidnapping attempts struggled to evolve (due to over creative RP interaction).

4. Look Evil - Seems the only one and popular - Wander round saying "Hmmm, Hmmm, hmmmm" to everyone.

What I am trying to say is there is no real plot advantage here for Evil RP's. I would like to see an Evil town spring up that is basically chaotic with it's own corrupt leader and system (Aviar, Rick or Keira opprtunity). This would create an excellent split in the communities and allow for some interactions with Spies, and raiding parties etc..Any ideas?
Makz, what do you think?, Is it possible? I know we can RP it, but if you would officially define a town for this purpose that the Evil community can reside, i think we could develop quite a nice set of events out of it.

[maylstryx]

Something Ive talked about for a month with Caldier is yes set a town aside for the evil ones or a section of styne say the north harbor. Every town or city has an undesirable area, the other side of the tracks persay. Parts of town that unless you belonged you simply never ever step foot there for safetys sake ie your own. Then Styne, Castille can have paladines and police forces with laws to protect but..... evil is evil, let it be very known to all players that if you dont want trouble or death or random set traps, simply never enter that part of town or town itself. Pking too, if you shouldnt be there, expect death, robbery, being kidnapped, but in that section no ramifications to the evil ones...anything and everything goes. It is their part of town or town itself. I think this would help those wanting to play thieves or asassines, commit a crime go to jail, but if you do and can make it back to the bad part of town well then the law better bring an army to find and arrest you. Anyway just some thoughts.

[taylor]

this is all very nice, certainly good for RP i didnt mind being evil as pero, though it was very short time before his demise, i found it restricting so i would agree with an expansion, but just imagine how many evil and how many good there would certainly be a reduction in numbers, it owuld be pretty harsh and it would probably end up like a PvP server,

overall i have to disagree with you splitting up the island

[Makzimia]

What I think is that I will do what I have always meant to do, and that is make the styne harbor point into that area, anyone that has been there knows there is a shady character who wanders around there. But again, I am not going to bend over backwards to do things in the usual hyperspeed some players want. There is an overall lack of imagination on the part of certain players who seem to think coming into West Styne constantly killing the chicken and Derto and any other NPC over and over is being evil... and again, doing something that is known to be wrong in front of the law, is plain stupid, evil does subtle things in front of the law, hidden things in front of the law, this sort of PK wrapped in RP clothing makes me realise why perma death became popular with so many RP servers, I was always hoping that some common sense would solve such things, but alas I am wrong obviously.

Whilst I am not going to put a HCR in, I am warning those of you that think that evil is as I have described above are in for a rude awakening.

Makz.

[Cella]

I do hope you weren't referring to me, although i have killed the chicken a few times recently (just trying out my new fire whip)...point taken...I have tried to do things differently with regards to evil plots...It is hard though...anyway,

[Makzimia]

Nope Cella, if anything your RP has been spot on for what I invision as evil, random stuff is not what I am referring to, those that are guilty of what I said, know very well who I mean.

Makz.

[MitzaVolchenko]

*confesses to killing Derto 15 times in the middle of the night to shove a character's alignment down just to finally have a nifty alignment title*

Having made that comment and pointed out that I did it with 4 other people logged in and all of them elsewhere and out of sight of the guards.

I'd like to say thank you to Makzimia. You give both the poor distraught monk and the evil plotting beast hope with a few sentences.

I think most of you are familiar with my recent frustration with the way things are evolving, and Mala is ICly frustrated with not being able to do ANYTHING of a lasting nature where evil is concerned.

Before you all say it, yes both I and Mala know that evil is eternal...however even in the worst of the evil-returns-no-matter-how-many-nails-you-put-in-the-coffin-lid
scenarios, there are ways to finally and irrevocably put evils to rest...in the end even Pinhead is destroyed.

I really enjoy RP'ing on this server and I would like to thank the people that made poor Selly type me messages of 'please don't go.' She wanted to strangle you all for it, but she was too happy with playing with all of you to stay mad

[Silentus]

Heres a thought - You want an evil chaotic area, make one! Makz doenst need to do anything at all. Evil types, start setting up your own territories somewhere and harass characters that come in on your 'turf'. It would be best I think if many evil types shared the area, as usually the seedy area of a town is centralized. If the law cant keep up, the seedyness continues untill the law just stays away. Thats what tends to happen in US cities. Heck, if West Styne wasnt so central it might have been reletivly abandoned by the law already. Plus, if multiple evil factions are in one area, it will lead to alot of interesting plots and temparary alliances against other goods and against other evils as well.

All that said, I cant stess enough how VERY important it is to nicely explain ooc what is happening to the person entering if they are not aware, so they do not think you are griefing them in any way.

To me, North Styne Harbor would be better than the point as there is currently no real reson for anyone to go to the point and I think some (but not tons) of thru traffic is important for this.

The world is what you make it unless Makz says otherwise.

[Phoenix]

Starting a 'seedy' area of town would require some help from Makz I think. Why? Traffic. Why would pepole go to the 'seedy' side of town unless there are reasons. Peolpe hang out in West Styne for lots of reasons; it's near the mines, there are merchants, there is crafting (this is a double effect because it draws crafters and buyers), and there is a ke'haar point just outside west styne, it the spawn point for the whole server, did I miss something?

I have done this with various spots outside of town, and it never got a good reaction (alway ended in PvP and ooc complaining about). I tried this in spots that do draw players outside town (like the mysterious castle or crypts, which ended in someone complaining about me hogging the crypt for xp).

But I'm willing to try this again, but I don't think inside town would seem right, though. I mean town has laws and lawmen, something a criminal would tend avoid, especially if they are making themselves obvious by being thugs.

[Hanah]

About having a place free from the law...

Step outside of the confines of Styne:-) Our good lawmen have no jurisdiction out there. King's Forest, the mines, or the Fredian hunting grounds are all one transition away from the hustle and bustle of West Styne... no interfering coppers and plenty of opportunity for mirth, mayhem and malice.

Hanah

[Shwabba]

The best evil towns I've witnessed in games have always been 'secret' or hidden towns. The only way you can get there is if someone shows you the way or you accidentally stumble on it. I remember one game had a secret door that led to a slippery climb down (a dex check was made at each zone in and if you failed you took 'falling' damage). When you got to the bottom, you had to wander through the underdark until you found the right path to the town.
Needless to say, everyone knew there was an evil headquarters somewhere, but it's hidden location and the difficulty involved in getting there made it a sort of safe haven for the ne'er-do-wells.
I guess my point is, the less random traffic, the better the evil towns have thrived and the more evil they have seemed.

Your Run-Out-Of-Pseudo-Clever-Pseudonyms Shwabbaman

[Phoenix]

Shwabba said:

The best evil towns I've witnessed in games have always been 'secret' or hidden towns. The only way you can get there is if someone shows you the way or you accidentally stumble on it. I remember one game had a secret door that led to a slippery climb down (a dex check was made at each zone in and if you failed you took 'falling' damage). When you got to the bottom, you had to wander through the underdark until you found the right path to the town.
Needless to say, everyone knew there was an evil headquarters somewhere, but it's hidden location and the difficulty involved in getting there made it a sort of safe haven for the ne'er-do-wells.
I guess my point is, the less random traffic, the better the evil towns have thrived and the more evil they have seemed.

Your Run-Out-Of-Pseudo-Clever-Pseudonyms Shwabbaman

That description of the secret door to a slippery climb down to a hideout is almost too familiar, was that from a PnP module?

I like the idea of a hidden evil place, but still there has to be something to do there, a reason to go. Crafting, a unique store, something... There is nothing in the woods but small furry woodland creatures. Plus, I have seen the law extend their powers beyond the city limits (fight chase right out of town into the woods or where ever, people are arrested for murders in the woods, etc.), so I'm not to keen on causing trouble one area away from the knights hangout.

In order for the idea to be effective people would have to be there. I'll tell you what, I'll try this some and see what comes of it. Honetly I don't think I'll see many (enough to be there for) people, except the random walk-bys unless I pick a honey pot like the 'fredian training grounds'. I'll proably try several over the next few days.

Beware of the areas which I'm claiming. ^.^

[kline]

Finnally someone is listening yes yes yes. An evil town I vote for the desert it is harash and nobody wants it. I want the desert. ;D It has things you need to craft, and a craft store. It has everything. But this is definatly something that Makz has to have the say on. Where ever the evil place is? I would like for this place to have craftable things there and a craft store to make ideams. I dont think any new place needs to be built but what about, somewhere a town becomes evil. That would give the evil people ablity to take rank. And protect there own laws and ideas. Our little homesweet home.

[Makzimia]

I actually really like Shwabba's mention of a hidden city/area for shady types, when I can work out a few logisitics including how to actually make those darn hidden doors work, they never have for me, I may consider this, I already have ready access to scripts that can do checks for dex etc... In the meantime, Desert as a hideout... hmm... I can handle that... there are a number of bandit caves and even a couple of homes already there. I must stress again however, you need to evaluate your player and hang off those that do not want anything to do with you.

Makz.

[Silentus]

I really dont get it guys. Just tell everyone here, and tell all your evil friends in game and before you know it you will have your own evil area! Yes, there will be run-ins from time to time. Heck, may even see a war to try to 'clean up' the area. Just like RL - shady areas develop from 2 things (a) a lack of law enforcement presence and (b) existance of crime/evil element. From there on it is self perpetuating until such time as someone decides that a large action must be taken to reform the area.

The real key here is communication among the evil community that you want to make this a safe haven for seedy types.

BTW Kline, I really like the conceptual reasons for Desert North alot! I don't like that it is so remote for you, but Ke'Haar stones take care of most of that Plus, if you want Makz to develop the area, if it becomes a hub area, I would guess that he probably would be willing (note that is my guess - I cannot speak for him). But first you have to prove that there is a good reason by getting people to be there. The infrasturctre is complete enough there to make it useable currently so now just spread the word...