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Post by Phoenix on Mar 1, 2004 23:13:17 GMT
Preedy1978, actually I'm talking about more fundamental character differences and how to resolve these characters issues. Not the occasional blowing off of steam which every player does, no matter what. I'll listen to most rants as long as they make sense. ;D
I also think you modern day cop ref. is way off, as most cops I have met would simply take it. After all, that's the law...
Also weigh this, would a knight (or anyone) try to thump someone who could return the thump? I mean would they risk mortal combat over someone speaking their minds, or telling them off a little? Sounds risky to me.
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Post by Silentus on Mar 1, 2004 23:19:56 GMT
ooc: Might wanna start prefacing everyhitng wiht an IC and an OC here, seems to get jumbled  Anyway, as far as Preedys comments are concerned, I added an addemdum in the CJ forum. It really is a near technicallity, but Preedy's right - if there is no reason to respect enforcers, the enforcers will not be respected. It does work both ways though, if an enforcer (knight) is unjest, a mob will take him out eventually. I believe preedy to be resonable in attempting to follow much of what we have setup though. I have also made a request for a 5 minute jailing if possible too for such simple offencses - we'll see if people lke that or not and if it even can be done. To vote on that stuff, goto the CJ forums. IC: "............................" |
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Post by ride on Mar 1, 2004 23:27:22 GMT
I also think you modern day cop ref. is way off, as most cops I have met would simply take it. After all, that's the law... ooc: ( in the general chat forums even.... lol ) where do you live phoenix? must be a nice place.... most places I have ever been you'd be lucky to walk away from that cop with only a bruised face... let alone *walk* away.... I think they even call it insubordination... I'd say I dare you to try that in RL and see where it gets you, but we need you here to play with us Knights are knights, they are the ultimate law we have on the island right now.... tick one off and suffer the concequenses... simple |
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Post by Radog on Mar 1, 2004 23:38:11 GMT
Before I chime in, let me say that Phoenix I think you are pretty good RPer... That said... All the things that Hanah brought up about Cella IC were well-documented, so it is not unreasonable to call her character into question, as far as holding a position like that after so little time passed between her appointment and all the evil/drama she was involved in. As far as Aviar and the Black Lotus, we are as clean as a whistle. Regardless of what people think our motives are and what crimes we may or may not have commited behind the scenes, no one has proof of anything. He hasn't spent one second in jail, in fact the only character in the BLA who has served jail time for something known was someone who turned himself in to Mack at Aviar's behest for a failed pickpocket attempt. Innuendo, hearsay, and rumors dont cut it; you have to have proof. The beauty of your guild being private is it hard to link you to or pin anything on you or your members, especially when you dont know who they are! Mwuhahaha! Also, don't forget that Aviar used to serve as council to the Viceroy, he has some history being involved in the local politics, so I am sure that weighed in his favor. As far as his IC duties, I and many others think that he has performed them admirably. He is regularly on duty, comes on duty when crimes are reported to him regardless of when it is, does not allow civilians to draw their weapons in town, and treats his foes fairly when they are in West Styne, as far as not attacking them or sending them to jail because of personal differences. One suggestion to the outwardly evil group is to come together and try to frame him and the Black Lotus to get him ousted, or if you think you know of something they did, try to prove it to the King and the other Knights. oh BTW, when you mentioned that you have killed a Knight, you should add a little side note on how you did it..... *coughscoughscheaptimestopmissiletacticscoughscoughs* But seriously, outwardly evil needs to come together and unite, that is the only way you will ever get anything done, my two Abe Lincolns...  |
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Post by Phoenix on Mar 1, 2004 23:43:34 GMT
Fort Worth, Texas. Have you ever talked to a cop? Do you really think they would assault you for saying "I hate GW Bush!" or would they ignore you? How about "this law sucks, we should be able to speed!!!" sure, lets go bash that guys skull in for that one!!! LMAO, no, your just going to get the ticket. Unless you called the cops mother a B**** words are not going to affect many cops. I see lots of cops everyday, I work downtown, you should see some of the crap they put up with from some of the bums. They follow the law too. But there are a hundred different reasons it's not comparable. And the King is the law, not the knights, something THEY should remember, as well as the peons. edit: Radog, didn't read your post, you posted while I was writing. "As far as Aviar and the Black Lotus, we are as clean as a whistle." letf your name out of the mix for a reason. I know what I have seen, but don't know others have seen. Trying to protect the -ahem- innocent. As far as dealing with it, there are plans on the table, that's all RP stuff. ^.^ And who you calling outwardly evil, I have never been convicted of anything. I'm as clean as Aviar. ;D "oh BTW, when you mentioned that you have killed a Knight, you should add a little side note on how you did it..... *coughscoughscheaptimestopmissiletacticscoughscoughs*" *coughcoughhealpotionsarejustascheapcoughcough* sorry had to clear my throat. Honestly I mostly use TS to get away unless I have to, you did notice you used 2 heal potions before I cast TS? So technically we could have killed you 3 times over... Consider that a finishing move. |
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Mar 2, 2004 0:07:23 GMT
<OOC>
I hate to do this but the poor cop-knight analogy needs propping up...
Fredian knight != American police officer
because
Fredian != America, Canada, Britain, $YOUR_COUNTRY
This is something we all ought to bear in mind here. Do not expect a knight to be obligated to treat you with respect because quite frankly, human rights and general liberty are/should be an anachronistic concept in Fredian.
Radog... good point, I forgot Aviar was a viceregal council member. That is even more reason IC to make Aviar a likely candidate for knighthood. Also, one who is a known cop-killer in our world is not treated nicely by those same officers who are obligated to have some respect for us... I suspect that the knights, not bound by such cultural concepts may have some serious asskicking in mind for someone who takes out one of their own;-)
Hanah
</OOC>
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Hanah
Elder
Hanah Dedraluin<br>Kether<br>Verine Odama
Posts: 203
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Post by Hanah on Mar 2, 2004 0:10:19 GMT
Hanah, You'll be hearing from my Lawyer.... Can't a woman have second chance.....I'll get you for this! LOL sorry Cella, it's only slander if it isn't true:-) Don't mind me, I'm just mumbling to the forums about recent events, I'm really not trying to single you out. Curious to see what the future will bring, as always.... Hanah |
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Post by ride on Mar 2, 2004 0:36:17 GMT
here's a thought: stop all this whining about TS and IGMS combo and just have Makz take them out of the mod.... how about just Timestop being removed? since it is just so d**n cheap.... ( I don't want this, but if it will stop the whining about that particular combo, then I'd be all for it...) I kind of think that subraces are cheating sometimes, but you don't hear me complaining about it constantly.... I mean come on you get insane stats and are basically a few lvls higher than a "normal" player of your equal lvl... that sounds "cheap" to me, sure we could all do it, but that would not be too much fun now would it? complaints, pregnant doging and more complaints is all I ever hear anymore.... it's getting rather frustrating.... and I have to say if you remove those, you'd have to remove dev crit and probably at least sneak attack.... they just do too much damage huh..... gimme a break, live with it, learn a new tactic.... stop already.... dang.... and why is it that we are only happy if can just slam an opponent and win within 2 seconds? what happened to good equal fights that could last all day sometimes? heck we might as well just run around naked and yell insults at each other, ( I keep saying that don't I... well it *would* be funny, but then someone would complain that some of us use too big of words and they can't understand them and then *that* would be cheap) does anyone else here think this is just a bit too much sometimes? *runs off to forget about all this before he starts playing the game* oh yeah phoenix I have talked to lots and lots of cops, more than I'd really care to admit, and most of them have been stuck up power hungry arseholes, who would rather beat you up and make an excuse that you attacked them later, than just sit there and talk after all they are the law, what are they gonna do arrest themselves? (that's the sentimnent I get, but I live in southern california so that's probably it. lol ) *pregnant dogging?? oh... lmao!!!!!! |
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Post by Cella on Mar 2, 2004 0:43:25 GMT
Hanah...NPs....  |
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Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 2, 2004 2:58:40 GMT
My, my, my...
I can barely keep up and track what is happeing in the forums, let alone IC inside the game.
Hanah I would of pegged as Neutral Good long before chaotic neutral, but I don't RP a lot.
Cella, in one statement you made I was guess Lawful Neutral or Neutral Evil, either leaning towards Lawful Evil of hiding a Chaotic Evil for a future explosion.
As far as the knights go, I am not around them enough yet, to make a judgement (in RL I try to avoid judging others, but appears to be important in Fredian).
The reference to cops and BS, as a teen I saw a fellow teen get his legs spread a little farther on a police car trunk awefully far up his legs (it really looked painful just to watch, but he deserved it), but since Rodney King was televised being abused way beyond submission a lot of police departments have been looking for recruits that can tolerate name calling and verbal abuse without losing their cool.
My current take of the current CJ system, we voted on the laws we would be willing to live by and the types of punishments we felt were applicable to said crimes. Currently King Wend is chosing to hold martial law over all civilized areas of Fredian while waiting for a good civilian system to be put into play (that may or may not be automated with scripts, Makz and Nat are working hard to come up with a system Makz will approve for use in his world).
I talked with Makz about Eriden trying to capture or attacking King Wend, and I was told that would result in character being perma-killed (not player getting banned).
But I, myself, tried getting harsher punishments added for lessor crimes than attacking a king, and I always expect my evil character to leave (hard to do with Fredian being a slice of a world captured in a dimesional sliver) or to be permanently killed. And heroes and heroins can be killed 1 to many times in battle. And if all goes well, these things will get summerized into books in the bookcases around Fredian for those of us who like to read to know what the hell is happening.
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Post by Cella on Mar 2, 2004 11:37:26 GMT
Just for the record...Cella is Lawful Evil....This I hope explains her actions and motives....
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Post by Preedy1978 on Mar 2, 2004 18:35:31 GMT
An example for you: You go up to a cop in the street and start slating him down, then you decide to tell him that 'he/she' is corrupt and power hungry...whats going to happen there? Hmm...I think that the cop is going to get just a tad mad....in some cases arrest you on the spot. (I have seen this first hand) This is what i was referring to as an act of abuse...NOT speaking their mind about current affairs! DIRECT abuse at a Knight, or general disorderly behaviour in Fredian, or IRL for that matter, is going to get you into trouble! Simple as! ICwise, I DO give ppl MANY warnings about such behaviour before acting...and if they choose to stand down, then all fine and good, with just a few stiff words being said to them (as any RL cop would do). If they dont stand down, then they meet the walls of the local cell block. (As any normal RL cop would do). In regards to the request for adding 5 minutes to the lasso, and the laww addendum, Im all for it and i cant wait....*sigh*. This wont mean people cant speak their mind...it just means that they have to BEHAVE themselves in town! Sheesh! I thought thats why the CJ system was implemented! |
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Post by AvengersWraith on Mar 2, 2004 19:21:25 GMT
In the CJ thread is a topic started on this so I added my imput there.
I don't expect even the most noblest of knights to stand around being excessively verbally abused, or even the most devote paladin, in the CJ thread I suggest "disturbing the peace" as well as addressing the issue of collecting fines.
In as simple a statement as possible for me to make: There is a line between civil disobedience and disturburbing the peace, different knights may easily see that line drawn in different locations, what one knight may tolerate another may not. The main reason for having players play the role of knights is for the differences and the different possible outcomes from interacting with them, script NPC knights would be rather Black & White with no possibility of shades of gray.
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Mar 3, 2004 18:58:22 GMT
Okay, I would, as a player, appreciate the slander of police officers (referring to US) to stop. I grew up in a cop family and my health is the only reason I am not a cop now.
Recent trial and punishment of high profile police brutality cases, etc. shows that cops do not get away with things just because they are cops. They are NOT above the law.
On the issue of the appointment of Cella and the question of doesn't a woman get a second chance...errr she is on her fifth or sixth chance now, so ICly, No. OOCly, it has left a bad taste insome players' mouths as it was very close on the heels of some pretty nasty beahvior from her.
On the issue of revolution and rebellion. There is an IC rebellion brewing, if you want in, find it ICly. The Rebels are well informed ICly and OOCly that the King is untouchable, but he is the only one above destruction for it. Aviar, Karl, and Mack at least have some of the IC clues, but so far they are too thingysure to have really investigated to my knowledge.
As a player and as two of my characters, I consider the instant forgiveness and elevation of those 'controlled' or 'possessed' to be absurd. It has however thrown black powder onto the fires of revolt. Now all we need is some weapons grade plutonium, and we will be in business.
On the issue of the Knights, they don't have to be all aroundnice guys, but I would like to see the King issue a proclamation of a Knightly Code, and then I would like to see it enforced by the rest of the Knights. One bad Knight makes the rest of them look bad as well as reflecting poorly on the King.
On the issue of killing a knight, sneak out of the shadows, have your back up ready, and start swinging. It doesn't hurt to have people on the inside, waiting for the Knight in question to take a rest break and then strike the killing blow. Numbers always win as long as everyone is committed and doesn't mind a trip to the Temple of Tyr for their boldness.
Most of this is just academic as we have little recourse with no means of perma-death in the players' hands.
The ramifications of recent appointments, etc. should echo for some time and may bring a new way of life to Fredian or may leave behind the smoldering hulk of a failed revolution.
*sits back and watches for developments*
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Post by MitzaVolchenko on Mar 3, 2004 19:00:53 GMT
thingysure...hmmm...wasn't aware that I used a bad word...bad editor, bad bad editor!
Ni! Ni! Ni!
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Anyway, as far as Preedys comments are concerned, I added an addemdum in the CJ forum. It really is a near technicallity, but Preedy's right - if there is no reason to respect enforcers, the enforcers will not be respected. It does work both ways though, if an enforcer (knight) is unjest, a mob will take him out eventually. I believe preedy to be resonable in attempting to follow much of what we have setup though. I have also made a request for a 5 minute jailing if possible too for such simple offencses - we'll see if people lke that or not and if it even can be done. To vote on that stuff, goto the CJ forums.
"There are only three sports--mountain climbing, bullfighting, and motor racing--all the rest being games." Ernest Hemingway 
