Use of Lasso in PvP

[Preedy1978]

I think R1de makes is excellent.

I am NOT against RP of this kind Phoenix, but with all the stuff that happens in Styne, I am quite frankly weary of the whole issue.

If you wanna RP something like that, then maybe let me know, and we can work something out

Like Ive stated before...I have NO problems with any RP that is played out well...even were it involves getting my a** spanked all over Styne. (some of the best rp has come from instances like this.)

This shouldnt always be about who wins, it should be about RP.

Joscma...why change your stance on something like the use of the lasso? I am not going to, so why should you?

People IRL see cops carrying guns and cuffs...they are a detterant. If a cop is attacked by a maniac waving a sword at him, he's gonna draw his pistol and pop a cap in him....so maybe people IC should think of the lasso as a detterant as well, and expect a knight to use it.

[Azuul]

"People IRL see cops carrying guns and cuffs...they are a detterant. If a cop is attacked by a maniac waving a sword at him, he's gonna draw his pistol and pop a cap in him....so maybe people IC should think of the lasso as a detterant as well, and expect a knight to use it."

True, but in todays world people dont bring swords to a gun fight, they bring guns... and that brings the people to an "even" ground. Yes it is a deterrent but is definatly not the deciding factor in the fight, neither should the lasso be..

[JoScMa]

Joscma...why change your stance on something like the use of the lasso? I am not going to, so why should you?

Well, it seems like people on the bad end of the lasso always have to complain. Got two people here who told me they are going to stop playing evil just because I used the lasso.

I got extremely tired of all the fighting that took place in the last several days (before Makz did his shout to stop the action in W Styne) because it seemed like every time I went into town, trouble starts. I wanted to actually do some RP'ing with certain players when instead, I get people trying to start something with Mac.

I'm glad that it calmed down since because I can actually do something else other than swinging my sword a million times.

[Preedy1978]

true Azuul....but people DO carry knives, bats bars etc.

The saying was a point of view, not an accurate assessment of how things actually happen in real life.

[addicted2rpg]

If that discourages them from playing "evil" maybe its for the best.

I can count only on one hand the number of players who do a good job at evil imho, but I'm not out to tell anyone how to roleplay -- until someone gets killed & griefed.

[Hanah]

JoScMa said:

Well, it seems like people on the bad end of the lasso always have to complain. Got two people here who told me they are going to stop playing evil just because I used the lasso.

That really isn't *your* fault or problem though, JoScMa... that's someone else trying to change how you play your character. If someone feels they can't play 'evil' well because you have a character with a loop of rope I think that says more about them than you, doesn't it?

But the concept of someone trying to 'start something' with Mack, that's just... odd... that they didn't think they were going to get calf-roped.

Hanah
... good evil is precious:-)

[taylor]

being a once very great PVPER (im retired now lol) im all for fairness in combat, the lasso is fairly handy ina tight spot but i dont believe the lasso should be able to be used unless
a) the opponent is dead
b) the opponent isnt fighting back (that could include flesh to stone or any other type of restraining spell.

[Phoenix]

MysaidesCaldier,

It doesn't matter much about differences in timezones, if we want to do something lets set a time that as many people can make and do it. That way we know who can and can't be there, so we can plan around it. Maybe not having a task where everyone must be there at once would help. I had a lot of fun in that RP, we should just try to post when to meet, instead of hoping/waiting for someone to logon.

"Well, it seems like people on the bad end of the lasso always have to complain. Got two people here who told me they are going to stop playing evil just because I used the lasso."

Just like was mentioned in another thread RP is mutual, if both people are not happy in the end, something is wrong. It likely wasn't fun for someone. The replies from Preddy1978 are not encouraging, this isn't a one sided thing. Treating it like that is a sure way to affect the playerbase on the server in a negative way. No one likes heavy handedness on top of a deaf ear.

"I am not going to, so why should you?"

Preddy1978, if people are not having fun do you expect them to stay? There are fun RPs with the lasso and there are not fun ones. Fleshing out the difference and stopping the bad ones should be in your list of options. I would hope this isn't your only view

"That really isn't *your* fault or problem though, JoScMa... that's someone else trying to change how you play your character. If someone feels they can't play 'evil' well because you have a character with a loop of rope I think that says more about them than you, doesn't it?"

Well, that's very debatable. It's not like someone is saying you shouldn't have swung your sword because... It's not an item just anyone can get, I can't go tie a knot in a rope and get the same affect the lasso has. It's a server tool, something by it's very nature only few people have. After all you said in another thread "now while it is wonderful that you are having an RP vibe and enjoying it, it is possible that some of us your actions have included are perhaps not. RP is essentially a mutual experience, perhaps we all ought to bear that in mind to further enjoyment for *all* players."
So please consider that *all* players are not happy with the use of this tool, and boiling the problem down to 'loop of rope' is a bit unfair.

"If that discourages them from playing "evil" maybe its for the best.

I can count only on one hand the number of players who do a good job at evil imho, but I'm not out to tell anyone how to roleplay -- until someone gets killed & griefed."

This is so true. The proof is in the pudding, if people don't want to play evil, something is wrong. If good evil is so hard to find we shouldn't be discouraging it, in fact we should be encouraging it... Also, I don't think people would have problems with any tips from the DMs, not how we -should- have done things, but how we -could- have done them.

[Hanah]

Phoenix said:

Well, that's very debatable. It's not like someone is saying you shouldn't have swung your sword because... It's not an item just anyone can get, I can't go tie a knot in a rope and get the same affect the lasso has. It's a server tool, something by it's very nature only few people have. After all you said in another thread "now while it is wonderful that you are having an RP vibe and enjoying it, it is possible that some of us your actions have included are perhaps not. RP is essentially a mutual experience, perhaps we all ought to bear that in mind to further enjoyment for *all* players."
So please consider that *all* players are not happy with the use of this tool, and boiling the problem down to 'loop of rope' is a bit unfair.

OMG, someone actually reads my posts, colour me ecstatic:-)

I don't believe my two statements are contradictory. I'm not sure that a game mechanics issue can have all that much impact on RP. To use a mage-centric example, let's look at TimeStop. I hate hate hate *hate* that spell, especially when my allies use it. Invariably I'm in the middle of trying to land a heal on someone who's Near Death and the TS cancels my action. Game mechanics issue. I griped about it once but then I thought, "Well, it's just one of those things. I can't stop a mage from casting TS afterall. I'll deal." I didn't let it ruin my fun, and I rolled with it. My RP was not hindered by someone firing off a TS in battle.

I view the lasso in much the same way. I really don't see where lasso usage impedes anyone's ability to respond to an RP situation and if anything it *creates* far more RP avenues than it could ever possibly hinder. And for the record, my second quote (the RP vibe one) had more to do with other players impinging on my ability to respond to a situation *at all*, not specifically in the way I would have preferred. I don't think the lasso prevents you from responding/contributing to a situation, but you may have the delightful surprise of having a variety of new RP responses opened up to you through its usage. We should explore these.

There is a fine line between RPing for mutual enjoyment and RPing for the enjoyment of others alone.... I would hate to see anyone placed in the latter position. This is the commonality between my two statements you quoted.

To repeat myself, I think the knights use the lasso responsibly and judiciously, at least so far as I have seen. I think they have taken *far* too much grief OOC for the services they have done for our community. Hmmm complimentary footrubs for our chivalrous fellows might be a nice gesture:-)

Hanah

[MitzaVolchenko]

*grins and cheers Hanah*

Let's all just play the game and see where it goes.

*pauses to kneel and worship Makzimia carefully averting her eyes*

I think the PP rule will help out as well. A lot of the recent issues have stemmed from overzealous PP'ing of new folks.

*looks sternly at the Knights' critics*

The Knights' players take a lot of grief, and I have seen some of them be grumpy enough from it that their enjoyment is killed by it, and yet they still do us the service of giving a sense of an attempt at law and order in a period of great strife and chaos.

Lets all just try to enjoy the game. If one scheme gets wrecked by a Knight with a lasso or Mala with PMS or a new player wandering their first level cleric of Elistraee into the middle of it, just come up with a new scheme or wait until the coast is clear!

*whistles and sharpens her evil claws in anticipation of all her wildest hopes and dreams of avarice coming true*

[AvengersWraith]

((I skipped a lot of the discussion after half way threw the last page))

Makz has made it clear on several occassions that he wants major mayheim kept out of West Styne because that is where we make our first impression on new arrivals. This I agree with whole heartedly.

Maybe you need to try the subtle approach in West Styne, like disguise yourselves and offer the knight some refreshments after they have been on duty for awhile. If they agree, try an assassination (honest, when I get my desk top organized I'll keep my dictionary near me) attempt.

The knights do not appear to object to RP good vs. evil, but their 1st priority is to keep West Styne civilized for new arrivals. Giving new players the opportunity to see what all is available in Fredian is the priority. People come and go because of real life issues, we don't need to be running off potentially good players with massive mayheim when they first arrive.

DEATH doesn't really mean anything, maybe evil needs to try unsurping the current knights, set them up to be patsies in a crime or frame them for something. Maybe openly recruit characters into joining forces and make sure the knights know where the hideout is located, give them a reason to go hunting outside their jurisdiction. Kidnap Hanah, if you do it right she might enjoy being kidnapped and having knights and good characters search for her.

I'm going to suggest Addicted be allowed to change the way the portal system works, have it based on being able to deduct 1,000 XP from the player. This should have more players walking around Fredian than just hopping (I'll hate this change if approved myself, but it will open more opportunities to kidnap or abduct players while they are travelling between towns if they don't have or don't want to spend the XP to use the portals).

[Makzimia]

Yes, West Styne is a womb for Fredian, I am almost *ALMOST* tempted to make it NON-PVP... but I don't want to, I would rather players just be respectful of common sense

As far as XP for use of the stones.. nope.. not happening.. not necessary.. a: stones are not persistent.. despite them showing up after saves sometimes that way... and b: you cannot use them in a fight, and you can only go to 3 places on them at the most.. all is fine there.

Makz.

[Preedy1978]

Ok, let me get one thing clear...I am NOT against evil rp!! How many times do i have to say this?!? 10? 20? My point is, IC, if Karl sees a crime committed in front of him in Styne, or in any of his juristiction, he WILL jail them. If they make the DC check, then its a good chance that they will escape, as it takes time to re-try the lasso.

If people arent enjoying the way that the lasso is being used, then maybe they should stop and think a minute....maybe they should try not punking out the knights IC every 5 minutes, or maybe they should try NOT committing committing offences IC in front of the Knights. Seriously, thats plain dumb, and it makes me wonder if those people are really interested in RP, or if they're more interested in PvP. I ask you, what is the lasso supposed to be used for? Rustling cattle?

Gimme a break, bottom line, I am NOT going to change my stance on this, unless Makz says otherwise.

The lasso is an rp tool for jail. It IS NOT for tidying up after a mass PvP slug-fest. Live with it.

[Hanah]

AvengersWraith said:

Kidnap Hanah, if you do it right she might enjoy being kidnapped and having knights and good characters search for her.

You're coming over here and cleaning the coffee off my monitor right now mister!

(Okay... catch my breath... try to suppress the giggles.... )

This is a good point although I have to admit I was a bit startled at being *named* in it. For the record Hanah has been:

(i) abducted numerous times
(ii) manipulated by the unscrupulous
(iii) maimed (she got better.... *ahem* Nat)
(iv) decapitated (she got... oh nvm you probably can't tell the difference)
(v) put a little off-kilter for an extended period of time
(vi) possessed by devourers
(vii) the worst of all, coaxed into wedlock!

Anyway you get the idea... I've been lucky enough to be involved in a variety of evil plots. Maybe we could *ahem* spread the love around a little;-) That isn't to say I don't want to be involved in the sinister, just that there are a number of other ideal victims;-)

Hanah
... did I ever tell you about the time that...#nosmileys

[AvengersWraith]

Hanah,

Hanah's innocence makes her a really good target for evil plots , ;D or is it

As far as being "the worst of all, coaxed into wedlock", I know the feeling, I have been happily separated for 5 1/2 years now. I am under the impression some people are trying to make you a widow, pray for the best (I mean "you play the best").

I really am sorry about the coffee cup going beserk when you read my post, I'll get Hanah some more bear skins to practice with.